Finally banned!

[Dedric]

Everyone who knew me, knew the day would come. I am now banned on the Dag boards. And the hilarious part? I actually didn't break any rules, just * on the parade of too many "vettier-than-thou" powers-that-wannabe. See this post for more:

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.ph ... ;topicseen

I was banned after replying to Grim that if any private get-togethers were banned at Rag I would attend "that OTHER game's event," and encourage others to do the same. Apparently talk of banning people from private meetings is perfectly fine (assuming that's what was being brought up, I wasn't 100% sure), but talk of the repercussions is not.

[Wisp]

Wait a minute... that reads like Blackhawk was the one who "sacked" you.???!!? I thought he was one of the powerless against the douchebags that make Dag retarded goodguy ambassador types.

Ooooooh. I get it now.

I officially feel embarrassed for them now.

What's wrong with some kid who doesn't know how to fight teaching a shield bash class? Two rags ago they had it as an official class with some big fat kid teaching high-school football drills. He obviously didn't know what he was doing either. Some girl got broken first bash. Class continued on regardless. Maybe this is them learning after the fact.

Will

[Forkbeard]

Many developements.
I am un-banned. Wow, didn't expect that.
Thanks Blackhawk, I'll be good. I'm glad becuase I've made some new Dag friends out here and could get ahold of them. I don't want to miss it if they have an event.
About the thread in question:
Why would they prevent anyone from doing anything at an event?
What is the problem with shield bashing I am seeing in there? What happened?
FB

[Soo Ma Tai]

Well, I registered on the Dag boards, though IDK how long that'
s going to last. I do promise to be good and not use any "bad" words like Belegarth, or the "other" game.

[varadin]

Soo i can only see this ending with you in a glorious uproar that we will all chuckle at some time.

[Blackhawk]

Dedric- you crack me up.
I have been babysitting your posts for over a year now. Editing your various breaking of the rules. I am pretty sure you have broken each one at least twice, and some, over twenty. Your final post trying to get a boycott of Rag in favor of another game, was the final straw. But what the heck, it's just more misinformation about Dag spewed forth on the innocent Bel folks who only want to beat each other with foam. It's crap like this that fuels this mythical feud between the games.

I have worked tirelessly to correct the arbitrary bannings from our boards.
You sir. Earned it!!

This has nothing to do with the thread you posted in. I love a good shield bash and would like to have the finer points taught.

I think FB put it best:
"What is the problem with teaching a sheild bashing class?
I do not understand.
This is a legal fighting move, no?
It seems to me that meany of you think people should NOT shield bash?
That it is dangerous and should be avoided?
I just don't get that. I thought this was a rough game for grown-ups who think they can fight.
Teach your class kid. Have fun. Don't let the haters get you down.
FB "

But people have a right to disagree, even if they are doing so because a couple of people in the past have been hospitalized at Rag shield bashing classes. Wimps!

I think we (Dag) simply don't not want to sanction it. What you do with your buddies at Rag is your own business. But if it can be shown that Us big mucky mucks knew it was dangerous and sanctioned it anyway, we could get in trouble.

I humbly apologize for releasing this moron upon your boards, he is your problem now.... enjoy! Gods dammit I loves me some freedom of speech!!

[Kyrax]

What's wrong with some kid who doesn't know how to fight teaching a shield bash class? Two rags ago they had it as an official class with some big fat kid teaching high-school football drills. He obviously didn't know what he was doing either. Some girl got broken first bash. Class continued on regardless. Maybe this is them learning after the fact.

Bingo - give this man a cookie.

That's the point I was trying to make in that thread, but gently. That a shield bashing class is a bad idea based on past experience. So is a shield bashing tourney, but that's another topic.

After attending SKBC this year, I have a much greater respect for those who can teach. As well as for the need for class instructors to know their subject well. There are some subjects that I'm pretty experienced at, but I lack the teaching skills and style so I myself wouldn't be a great candidate.

The irony of all of this is that the instigator of that thread wants to teach more about aggressive shield work than all-out shield bashes per se. Again, I'm not sure he's a great candidate for that job, but it is a bit different (and probably a lot safer than the thread topic).

As for your suspension from the boards Dedric - sorry fella, BH is right that you've been asking for it for a while. You were out of line calling for a boycott because an organizer might take action against something that was unsafe or unwise. And note that word might - none of the organizers has participated in that thread, some of their names came up when mentioned by others as someone who could intervene.

Take the time off to do other things, get your aggressions out on the field and come back in a month or so to ask to be reinstated. The boards will still be there, and so will you and your ideas.

And welcome back to the fun ForkBeard and Soo Ma Tai. Glad you guys are rejoining us there.

[Soo Ma Tai]

As long as I don't get banned just for being from the other game, I am fine with that. If I get re-banned because they think I should be banned fine. I have made several nice, friendly posts, and plan to continue to do so. I am certainly not there to subvert or troll. Only to make a contribution to the fighting community as a whole. I still wont be attending Dag events, my boycott still holds there, and really all stems from my treatment by one person in Dag. I love talking about the game we all play and the technical aspects therein.

I would fully understand if I were banned again because of the problem i have had with Dominus, but I hope that since he's out of the picture for the most part, we might all be able to start anew, with a fresh view of how we can all communicate with out stepping on toes.

Thanks Kyrax, I hope it lasts, but I know I burnt the bridge pretty hard last time i was on. I really don't expect it to last, but I hope it can.

[Blackhawk]

It really aint that hard.
Don't advertise your sport, not even sneaky like. "learned this at geddon" doesn't even qualify as sneaky.
Don't pop on various threads or start new ones with the oh so innocent question, "why cant we talk about other games here?" or "why cant I send personal messages?"
Try to avoid comparisons between Dag and whatever game you play.
Don't try to have a combined event and advertise it on our boards.
Don't post links to non Dag sites. or sites with links to other games.
Don't threaten bodily harm "gonna punch you in the *" is * funny, but not legal.
Don't bury your games info in your profile, that aint as sneaky as you think either.

If you think you are walking the line with a post, send it to me first. I'll let you know.
Don't expect equal treatment I freely admit to letting some people slide (like Dedric) and being ready to pounce on others for minuscule infractions, like most of you.
If you feel the need to **** on someone, **** on me, I can take it, and I think it's * funny. Some others have thinner skin or are "respected and revered members" of the Dag community with 0 sense of humor.

The boards are supposed to be PG rated so don't get cute with the filters just so we know you said ****, we know!

Try not to offer advise as to how to make the way Dag is run more like your sport.

And if you feel the need to talk about your game, go to your boards!

Most of these things would be considered common courtesy and not needed, but it seems that even common courtesy needs to be legislated these days.

[Wisp]

Ok, heres what boggles me. Shield bashing is part of the game. It has the potential to be crazy dangerous (as evident by people going to the hospital by attending a class on the subject that had an instructor that was average joe Dagorhir).

If the average player cannot teach a basic class on the subject without someone going to the hospital in it's execution, why is this allowed in the rules in the first place?

If the answer to that is it's not that dangerous and it was a fluke, then why are you so guarded in allowing just anyone to teach the basics at a sanctioned event?

If the issue is that not just anyone should be allowed to teach something that is officially sanctioned because of potential to have people harmed, why do you not allow access to outside source material from people who are qualified to teach without injuring someone?

I know last year SKBC was in Ohio (very much Dag territory) and there were Bel/Dag shield work classes offered. By the rules of the Dag board, you cannot advertise this source of knowledge to your players without violating the rules. The answer Dag came up with was to have their own academy where the instructor selection process was essentially "hey, I'm having this academy event, who wants to teach?". Is it just me or is anyone else seeing a cycle of self defeating policy that retards the progress of the game? Guess who's going to be instructing? Joe average guy thats doing it wrong or gets someone hurt.

Who makes these policies anyway? I just read a thread on the Dag board about who owns copyrights / Dag, and what I got from that was everyone who plays Dag owns the game. If that is the case, then who do I talk to to reverse this dumbass policy of non-interaction with other games for the betterment of the whole? Or is it that there really is a small group who controls everything after all? If thats the case, who are these people and why do they control things with such an iron fist?

I've been asking these same questions for a while now and I've yet to see any real answer. It's like listening to a politician worm around answering a direct question.

Until Dag fully opens up, the game is going to look like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5og0bH2cq3s

And thats the high end.

Will

[Blackhawk]

Wisp- Here ya go:

"Why don't you get rid of shield bashing altogether? is not a question that needs an answer. Neither Dag nor Bel is about to disallow it."

I suspect you already know the answers to the questions you are asking and are simply enjoying your soapbox.

If you cant figure out why one would not want a noob teaching a shield bashing class (insert proper insult to your intelligence here). There isn't anyone making policies here, just differing opinions being battered about. There are no politics here, and there is no all powerful overlord deciding Dags official stance on a noob teaching a shield bashing class. Stop trying to make this sound like there are.
--------------------
Who owns Copyrights?
Brian Wiese AKA Aratar AKA the founder.
--------------------
Who makes these policies?
Every year at Rag there is a meeting of a Rag War Counsel. Representatives from each realm in attendance elect the people who will be in charge of the various aspects of Rag for the following year. These are the people to consult regarding what is and is not going to be sanctioned at Rag. it is they we give our trust, so they can make the hard decisions. The big cheese this year is Tanhauser. head medic is Kida, head weapons checker is Laithe, Bishop was elected to run events but he bowed out and appointed Magnus in his stead. Head of troll is Vanisia. There are more but I don't want to look it all up. I suspect that you really don't care and are just testing me to see if I will give you a straight answer. Surprise!!
-------------------
Who do I talk to about interaction with other Games?
That would be Dag Board of Directors
President- Erikose
VP- Me
Magistrate- Mace
Secretary- Malice
Treasurer- Laithe
I can tell you that none of these people will give you the time of day. You just are not that important. I suspect you are fully aware of the reasons for our policy, you just don't like it! Sorry, you have your game and can run it any way you see fit. We have ours and we will do the same. Who the hell do you think you are to tell Dagorhir how it should be run? How many Dag battles has the mighty Wisp attended this year?? Helped out at?

I am a Dag fighter, and as such I have no business telling you what your board policies should be, how you should run your organization, what your rules should be, what your weapons should look like, weigh ect... So don't be surprised that we are disinclined to change any of these things just cause you want us to.

PS dag looks like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qCCWJJlxr4

If you want further information or would like to plead your case to a member of the board of directors, feel free to e-mail me. I promise to read it and send you a response.

BH- Brutal honesty is my policy. Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer!!!

[Wisp]

How many Dag battles has the mighty Wisp attended this year?? Helped out at?

Well, the two I had on my agenda that have already passed I didn't make due to conflicts of scheduling (Olympics was same weekend as TD Coronation), Gates was mothers day, and I've axed Rag in favor of geddon because you guys were douchebags with the 3" rule. I've still got Stormwrath, Battle for Middle Earth, and War of the IronFist all on the agenda. Those are just the Dag events. I've got some Bel events coming up too.

If I kiss your * like the noobs on the Dag board do, can I have an opinion on how Dag is ran? I'll promise not to choke to death fighting back laughter when you start another thread on how manly you are and how heavy weapons are all nifty and skill is overrated. THEN can I have an opinion? What if I start a Dag realm in ST Louis? THEN can I? Do I have to pick only Dag before my opinion counts?

Thanks,

Will

[Blackhawk]

How many Dag battles has the mighty Wisp attended this year?? Helped out at?

Well, the two I had on my agenda that have already passed I didn't make due to conflicts of scheduling (Olympics was same weekend as TD Coronation), Gates was mothers day, and I've axed Rag in favor of geddon because you guys were douchebags with the 3" rule. I've still got Stormwrath, Battle for Middle Earth, and War of the IronFist all on the agenda. Those are just the Dag events. I've got some Bel events coming up too.

If I kiss your * like the noobs on the Dag board do, can I have an opinion on how Dag is ran? I'll promise not to choke to death fighting back laughter when you start another thread on how manly you are and how heavy weapons are all nifty and skill is overrated. THEN can I have an opinion? What if I start a Dag realm in ST Louis? THEN can I? Do I have to pick only Dag before my opinion counts?

Thanks,

Will

Again with the questions.
So I answer all your questions, and you attack me.
I think we just might get along will.
I was serious about reading and responding to, your e-mail about our policies and ideas for improvement.
Will you accept straight answers even if you don't like what the answers are?

[Soo Ma Tai]

BH, you say you are a Dag fighter, and thusly your opinion should count in Dag, but not necessarily with another game. If I got to Dag events, doesn't that make me a Dag fighter? Will participates in Dag events, there fore he is a Dag fighter, he may play other games as well, but that's not the point. Like Will asked, "Do you have to choose ~just~ Dag before your opinion counts?"

[Derian]

Kind of late to the party, but just wanted to throw this out there:

It's crap like this that fuels this mythical feud between the games.

True story. No one is really doing it here, but posting threads like 'Finally banned!' make it seem like you're quite literally trying to aggravate the Dagorhir web leadership and it gives Belegarth a bad name and just inflates whatever problems, real or imagined, that are a detriment to both games.

It's their board and they're free to do with it as they please, as draconian and misguided as it may be.

Edit:

I was banned after replying to Grim that if any private get-togethers were banned at Rag I would attend "that OTHER game's event," and encourage others to do the same.

I don't really spend much time (ok, none) on the Dagorhir boards, but did you honestly believe a comment like that wouldn't get you banned? That one seems pretty obvious to me.

[Blackhawk]

BH, you say you are a Dag fighter, and thusly your opinion should count in Dag, but not necessarily with another game. If I got to Dag events, doesn't that make me a Dag fighter? Will participates in Dag events, there fore he is a Dag fighter, he may play other games as well, but that's not the point. Like Will asked, "Do you have to choose ~just~ Dag before your opinion counts?"

That is an excellent question.
The Honest answer requires the fighter to ask themselves some hard questions.

Am I trying to change something in Dag because it benefits me, or because it benefits Dag?
An example- Joe fighter has 4 6oz swords that he has been using in one game and does not want to have to make a 12oz sword just to fight in a Dag event. So he goes on the Dag boards to lobby for 6oz swords. This person, clearly is not doing that to benefit Dag and I would not take too much stock in their opinion.

Lets pick another one- Chris the crossgamer has gear from a number of different games and embraces their differences, even finds those differences refreshing. Reads Joe's post, and even though he has to make a new weapon, he tells Joe he is nuts. That's an opinion in Dags best interest.

I guess if you are able to make suggestions that are in the best interest of Dag, you should be listened to. But if you are just out for yourself or another game, then no.

[Wisp]

That is an excellent question.
The Honest answer requires the fighter to ask themselves some hard questions.

Am I trying to change something in Dag because it benefits me, or because it benefits Dag?

I think you should ask yourself that same question. What exactly is the benefit of not allowing people access to knowledge that will benefit their game?

Will

[Blackhawk]

I think you should ask yourself that same question. What exactly is the benefit of not allowing people access to knowledge that will benefit their game?

Will

I did not author the national Dagorhir board rules. However, I do understand why they are the way they are. And while the boards do not allow other games to advertise on the boards. We do allow those people who refrain from doing so, to impart their vast knowledge and skill there.
You seem like an angry young man Will. Are you having a bad day or something?

[Acorn]

i understand the whole "don't advertise your game over others thing" but you can't even advertise an event that is dag AND bel? isn't that advertising FOR dag more then against it? i'm on the dag boards and have liked reading the threads and haven't had a problem so i am not trying to bash, i'm just surprised.

also, question for you:

if Joe is a Dag fighter who has a 12oz sword and think that Dag should go for 6oz swords is he still not doing the benefit for Dag simply because he wants to try something different then 12 oz swords?

[Blackhawk]

i understand the whole "don't advertise your game over others thing" but you can't even advertise an event that is dag AND bel? isn't that advertising FOR dag more then against it? i'm on the dag boards and have liked reading the threads and haven't had a problem so i am not trying to bash, i'm just surprised.

also, question for you:

if Joe is a Dag fighter who has a 12oz sword and think that Dag should go for 6oz swords is he still not doing the benefit for Dag simply because he wants to try something different then 12 oz swords?

According to the realm agreement, those events should not happen. We turn a blind eye because we know in some areas, it just makes sense.

To Joe the Dag fighter- Joes desire to try out something different would not be a reason to change the weight requirements for all of Dag. Which brings us to the downside to our board rules. It would be nice to send them to a game that has them. But alas...... against the rules.

i think eventually Facebook and other sites will make those rules obsolete.

Although i hear the rules on the mid west boards are not nearly as draconian.

[Acorn]

ah. i didn't realize that dag realms weren't supposed to play with us. maybe that's why the Dag realm that supposedly exists in Medford never contacts us back. which is sad because there is a very active group of Bel fighters in Oregon.

yeah, that is a draw back but i guess there isn't really a good way to get around it without changing your other game policy...

ty

[Blackhawk]

Or we crush your game into the ground, steal your fighters and lord over all!!!
Muahahahahahahaha
Buahahahahahahaha * cough *
Just kidding.
I'll continue to park here for a while to answer your questions.

[Acorn]

lol. good luck with that.

[Wisp]

I did not author the national Dagorhir board rules. However, I do understand why they are the way they are. And while the boards do not allow other games to advertise on the boards. We do allow those people who refrain from doing so, to impart their vast knowledge and skill there.
You seem like an angry young man Will. Are you having a bad day or something?

I thought you were going to answer questions directly. Whether or not I'm having a bad day is not important (I'm neither angry nor having a bad day). The question was pretty clear. Your response, not so much. You do in fact prevent people from imparting their vast knowledge and skill on the Dag board. Pretty sure Peter among others have been banned simply from being from another game. I understand you guys have said, "whoops" and taken measures to reverse that ass-hattery but it still doesn't wash.

The part that does irritate me is that you seem to be locked in your own little Blackhawk universe. I do play Dag, I do go to Dag events. I do not frequent the Dag boards other than when someone posts the rare gem of something of interest. I do lurk the Midwest boards and a few others. That does not put me as squarely in the outsider category as you like to think. I do not consider myself primarily Dag of course, just as I don't consider myself primarily Monopoly or Stratego. I play a variety of games. Dag happens to be the only one with such idiotic policies. I obviously have games that I play more than others, I wish there were more weekends in the year, but it's still just a game to me. When I play four very similar games, and one of those four is so far outside of the common thread than the other three, it makes me scratch my head. Since none of the others have the same don't ask don't tell policy the Dag board has, and none of their games have collapsed, maybe you are over-thinking this.

Will

[Blackhawk]

Wait you want me to answer your inane questions directly?
OK:
"If I kiss your * like the noobs on the Dag board do, can I have an opinion on how Dag is ran? "
NO!!
"I'll promise not to choke to death fighting back laughter when you start another thread on how manly you are and how heavy weapons are all nifty and skill is overrated. THEN can I have an opinion?"
NO!! And I don't think skill is overrated, I think speed does not equal skill.
"What if I start a Dag realm in ST Louis? THEN can I?"
NO!! No way do you get a realm!
"Do I have to pick only Dag before my opinion counts?"
NO!!
"I've axed Rag in favor of geddon because you guys were douchebags with the 3" rule."
Not a question but what the hell. Here is your answer. It's this kind of comment that leads me to think you might not have Dags best interest at heart. Ya might just be looking out for yourself. It seems that you are unable to conform to the rules of Dag and have a good time. If Dag does not conform to your whims, you wont play.
------------------
All your other questions have been answered. You might not like the answers, but you have gotten the answers nonetheless.
------------------
That being said, I have agreed to read your ideas in an e-mail and give them the proper consideration. I have gotten inequitable bannings reversed. I have made myself available to you. Somehow, your response is:
"Pretty sure Peter among others have been banned simply from being from another game. I understand you guys have said, "whoops" and taken measures to reverse that ass-hattery but it still doesn't wash."

And this:
"The part that does irritate me is that you seem to be locked in your own little Blackhawk universe."
This was * funny, Are we having fun yet? I'm having fun!!

Can I get you some more gas for your weedwacker? so you can finish this olive branch off.
*?

[Blackhawk]

And just cause you like my manliness:



You are right! 38 inches 40oz of perfectly balanced hate!
Come get some!!

[Brooder]

From now on, I am going to ignore every post you make Blackhawk.
Also, Dedric, no one cares about you getting banned. Please don't chode up these boards like you did on the Dag boards.

[The Great Gigsby]

From now on, I am going to ignore every post you make Blackhawk.

Join the club.

He's like the bizarro Dagorhir version of Satanaka.

[Phrix]

ok... so bel boards you say what you want within reason of course, if your retarded your gonna get flamed and its hilarious to those not involved

dag boards you can't say belegarth really? ... you can't say amtgard or darkon or anything like that or you get banned???

bel boards you can say hey theres an event for "pick your game" come on out have some fun read the rules blahblahblah

dag boards - you can't do it or your * is banned?


am i right on this?... sorry im new still to organized foam fighting been a boffer for years though but i read this

It's crap like this that fuels this mythical feud between the games.

and then i wonder who is fueling the fire here...



on a side note - nice looking sword

[Spike]

Dear Dagorhirim,

The Belegarth boards are not your sanctuary for * about your stupid Dag drama, or arguing about why it occurred.

Kthxbai

[Tiberius Claudius]

Gay

FTFY

Though, I did find this statement interesting: "It's this kind of comment that leads me to think you might not have Dags best interest at heart. Ya might just be looking out for yourself."

I contend that all of this xenophobia / centophobia does "not have Dag's best interest at heart". It serves only to cement the power of the leadership through the restriction of the exchange of knowledge in classic Soviet/Stasi/Red Chinese fashion. Yes, I know that the users do have the ability to go find it on their own elsewhere, but in reading all the information available, the mentality behind this seems to be in the interest of "preserving" (read: stagnating) the comfortable environment of the Dag leadership in the name of the Great Silica Vaginitis Crusade.

I'm glad the Dag guys out west aren't as cloistered as back east. They're cool cats and good fighters. We use each others rules when we're at the other group's field and we all fight and party hard without a care in the world. We all get along because we're all we got out here in the distant wild wild west. * this stupid schism and all the people who espouse the paranoia it generated. If you're cool I'll swing foam with you and let you in on all the pro-tips I've picked up or point you to the peeps who are in the know, regardless of the game they play.

But, it's your party. At your house we should follow your rules, dumb as they are. Achtung baby.

Nice PD work on the sword, btw.

[Big King Jimmy]

Dear Dagorhirim,

The Belegarth boards are not your sanctuary for * about your stupid Dag drama, or arguing about why it occurred.

Kthxbai

QFT

[Peregrine]

blackhawk
wow 40 oz sound like you should be doing arma, I would not mind playing a game with those weight requirements, I would not what Belelgarth to be that game, but I would play, the heaviest foam sword I ever used was 32 oz that make swing swords a whole new game. maybe I will get fight you some day, I assume you are not going to make geddon what the closet event to Illinois you get to.
I have always wanted to try these
http://www.thearma.org/Practice/2ndGen1.htm

[Shepherd]

As a realitively new person, I wanted to add my opinon to this Bel/Dag mess. Maybe it will be overlooked/ignored by Dag folks or it may have some bearing, I don't know. Maybe I'm out of line - if so, please tell me.

When I went looking for a game like this, I found Dagorhir first and was perfectly willing to participate/join. Some nice folks tried to help me get started, but the Dag presence here in the Chicago suburban area is almost non-existant. I came to Bel really by default. I've fought w/Bel and Dag fighters and really they seem like the same type of nice folk - out to have a good time and battle. Now I hear that the Wildwood practice has folded completely and that makes me sad.

Now, I've read the various accounts of what happened (both sides) with the whole split and I understand why groups break up and form along other lines and that's fine ( I was once a Sociology major). But, overall, I feel Dag only does themselves a disservice by trying to defend how they run thier boards/game on this forum. I think Dag could only help strengthen their numbers and ultimately help their game by encouraging a sort of "interleague" play, especially in this area. Here's a radical thought - ENDORSE a Dag/Bel realm or event or mini-event. Sociology and even Game theory tells us that doing things for the good of the whole (foam fighting in general) and the individual (the fighter) benefits everyone involved - including your "side". Does that make sense? I'm not sure - it's late.

I know, I'm just a big hippie, but the simple equasion is this: Forgetting old **** + cross-promoting events/realms = More people getting together to have fun fighting. Maybe this could happen on a small, low level as an experiment? We don't all have to be one big happy family under one name, but growth in any form is good for your sport. Maybe it starts with some people from Bel inviting some people from Dag to a mini - event without any upper level sanction and The Dag folk except and we all have fun and say "let's do this again!"

Again, I'm new, and don't want to upset anyone on either side. So, I applogize if I am out of line and don't know what I'm talking about. I thought the newb perspective should be included as I represent the people you would like to recruit.

[Acorn]

nice post.

Cross gaming does happen in a lot of places (like out west where i'm from although that's mostly Ampt and Bel since there isn't a ton of Dag out here but the Dag guys in Cali cross game too) and a lot of Bel fighters go to Rag, and Dag fighters come to our events as well. It is not the average fighter but the powers that be that have a hard time with it, regardless of the reason.

So no worries: even if Dag doesn't promote cross gaming it happens and we totally promote it so it will only continue to grow.

[Phrix]

Elihu nice post man you got it to the T brotha

[Wisp]

Oh Geesh, I'm banned again from the Dag forums. I've not even posted there except once since I got a email stating my ban was removed and I did nothing to violate the terms of the board in the first place. That one post I did make was in an event forum just to say I had to cancel my plans to attend Olympics due to conflicting schedules. I guess I violated the rules of the Dag board in this thread by challenging BlackHawk. LOL. *, dude. Seriously?

Ironic part is, the only reason I found out was I was clicking a link to the Dag board that a Dag member had posted to E-Sam to cross-share info. Weird how this is a one way street.

Will

[MagnusofDregoth]

Gosh, I hope no one reads my posts on the SomethingAwful forums and decides that I should be banned from the Dag board.

But seriously, want to know something really funny? Dominus banned me from the Dag board like 3 years ago for making an offhand comment like "you can find foam weapons for sale if you Google search 'foam weapons for sale'...". And now I'm the fighting director and head herald of Ragnarok, because HE nominated me.



Not really sure how that's relevant, but anyway, the big problem with Dagorhir is that we (I suppose I include myself in this, though I try not to be this way) tend to be rather conceited and view ourselves as unequivocally the "best" in every way. And also, we act like jerks when we should be acting like gracious and welcoming hosts. We've always got a chip on our shoulder and are always quick to make statements that essentially say "we don't have to compare ourselves to other games, but if we did, we'd clearly be the best" and "no one from another game can teach us anything because we've already figured everything out."

It's a stupid, petty, and myopic viewpoint that I fear will come back to bite us in the * something fierce in a few years. There is a lot of doublethink going on and frankly it makes me cry. But I will continue to support Dagorhir and help run events because, rather than whining about it ad infinitum—fun though that certainly is—I think I'll try to actually effect a positive change in the organization and its attitude towards others.

[Forkbeard]

Magnus, I feel you, bro.
For my part, I will join the first Dag realm that starts up in Utah and help them every way I can.
I even tried starting one, but I'm not allowed. Probly becuase I started our Bel realm. Whatever, I can understand that thinking.
Please let me know if there is any Dag fighting around here. I would love to meet some new folks.
FB

[Kyrax]

Dear Dagorhirim,

The Belegarth boards are not your sanctuary for * about your stupid Dag drama, or arguing about why it occurred.

Kthxbai

Uh, no, this is Bel drama or at least the drama stage you've provided to some Belegrim and others to act out their personal version of "Look at Me!!! I'm important!!?!?!!?!"

K? Thanks - now I'm off to ship half my gear to Ragnarok...

[Soo Ma Tai]

Of course if our forums weren't here, people like myself and FB would still be banned because there never would have been a free discussion between Blackhawk and anyone. We would have never had the chance to even try, because e-mailing Dag leadership is like hitting your head against a brick wall. No, this isn't the place for that crap, but hey, we let them do it anyway. We just give them **** afterward. Pretty good system I think.

P.S. I would like to personally thank Dopp, Kargos, Locutis, and Ralimar for coming to our first event, when we were still Dag. If they hadn't we'd still be sitting around out here with absolutely no one to fight with, wondering how the hell to get to the east where people actually fight. They were nice enough to not care that we were Dag, and invite us to their game anyhow. If they hadn't come we would have never lasted. Our realm would have been gone by now for lack of anyone to fight with.

[Gámhain]

Chris the crossgamer has gear from a number of different games and embraces their differences, even finds those differences refreshing. Reads Joe's post, and even though he has to make a new weapon, he tells Joe he is nuts. That's an opinion in Dags best interest.

I guess if you are able to make suggestions that are in the best interest of Dag, you should be listened to. But if you are just out for yourself or another game, then no.

I am totally with you on this one, BH.

Since moving to Utah, I have become a cross-gamer. I am proud to be a cross-gamer. I love both sports for what they are.

Granted I am a relative noob. I've only been fighting for about a year and a half, and as such my opinion is worth basically nothing, but I believe wholeheartedly in learning to live with the rules of whichever game you choose to play.

Don't complain because when you go to an Amtgard event that people aren't hitting hard enough. Don't complain at a Dagorhir event because you can't use a speed-stick, and don't complain at a Belegarth event that people are wearing underarmor and a tabard. That's just how the respective games go.

If you want to fight in Dag, then build Dag-legal weapons. If you want to fight in Bel, then build Bel-legal weapons. If you want to cross-game, then build weapons that pass in BOTH. But don't huff-and-puff when the rules of one game conflict with the rules of a completely different game, just because it poses a personal inconvenience.

Suck it up and either 1) pick one game, or 2) build weapons that pass in both.

I would love to see Dag and Bel come back together into one huge, happy foam-fighting family, but from what I hear from people, there is still alot of animosity between the two.

To be honest, I really don't give a * who did what or who was being a bigger jerk. I don't care who stole whose pig or spilled so-and-so's whiskey and that's why the games split. I just want to have fun, dammit!!!!!

[Soo Ma Tai]

Actually, there is nowhere in the chapter contract that say's you can't run joint events with other groups, only that you must represent your chapter as a Dag chapter only. You just can't advertise those events on Dag boards because they happen to mention another game which as far as Dag is concerned, is a big no no.

[Gámhain]

Actually, there is nowhere in the chapter contract that say's you can't run joint events with other groups, only that you must represent your chapter as a Dag chapter only. You just can't advertise those events on Dag boards because they happen to mention another game which as far as Dag is concerned, is a big no no.

Put it on the Dag forums as a Dag event, and on other forums saying that anyone is welcome to attend, that's what we did with Feast of the May Queen, and we didn't have any problems.

[Acorn]

/sigh. this whole thing is so freaking silly.

[Kyrax]

/sigh. this whole thing is so freaking silly.

Yup - nine-ten years of silly.

[Acorn]

O.O good lord.

[Blackhawk]

It hits me something like this:
A decade or so Bel started as a game very similar to Dag. Allot of folks went to Bel and allot of folks went to Dag. Dag saw Bel as competition for members and adopted rules on their forums to keep people from bringing the drama there. Part of that philosophy was, why would we want to help the competition? People got their fellings hurt and allot of fighters had to choose which game they played based solely on geography.

Dag decided to run their national boards in a way that only benefits Dag, with the exclusion of all other foam fighting games. Bel decided to be all inclusive. From a business standpoint, lets call Dag Coke, Dags philosophy is something like this. Why in the hell would we let Pepsi (or any other soft drink) advertise on our national website, that's crazy. Now Pepsi (bel) cant seem to wrap their heads around why Dag (Coke) is being like that.

The problem is that the consumers (soft drink drinkers) suffer. The bright part here is that the non national boards are inclusive as are our events. It is simply the National board that keeps the original philosophy going. I don't see that changing and quite frankly, I don't know what that would do to both games. I can speculate, I can assume the best, but who knows what would happen?

Geezer alert:
Back in the days before the internet, we cross gamed allot, however, out of common courtesy, we did not talk about other games or recruit from each other. So for an 'old guy' like me, I don't understand the need to do so over the internet.
In my opinion, we simply have different views on how to run our national website, neither is evil, it's just the way things are.

Now we can all pee in each others cheerios. Bel about how we keep them from advertising on our boards, and Dag for Bel stealing Dags intellectual property and starting a competing game. OR, we can show that we are better than that. You can come to our boards and talk about fighting, garb, ect.... we can get over the wounds of the crap that happened over a decade ago, and crossgamers can get their gear in order for each game they play, reveling in the differences and the adjustments they have to make from game to game.

Cause I can guarantee, if i see you on the battlefield or around a campfire, none of this matters, we are having fun, and fun is why we do this.

Worse case scenario, we can come here and continue to poop on each other and talk some hate. We are fighters, we need enemies.

[Acorn]

Sorry Bh but I find your analogy flawed. Coke and Pepsi are companies who are after money who naturally want to cut into each others profit. Are Dag and Bel after money? god i hope not. that would be disgusting.

and why on earth do people want to "steal" each others recruits? who gives a freaking flying **** how "big" each organization is? wanting to talk to eachother without getting banned has nothing to do with "stealing recruits."

As to the whole Dag(Coke) not advertising for Bel(Pepsi) thing: the reason that Bel "can't wrap their heads around "that"" is because Dag people like yourself come here and we think that you are all great and would love to have a discussion about similarities and differences and cross gaming and then it is weird when we can't do this on the Dag boards. Seems to me that it's hypocritical for Dag to pretend that Bel and Ampt and others doesn't exist and then come HERE and have the exact discussions that they don't allow on their own board. If Dag is for Dag only and you have that attitude, then why on earth are you on THIS board? (you meaning any dag guys with that attitude, not necessarily you BH)

Regardless of the original reasoning behind it, it's weird. Plus, from what i've read it has waaaayyy more to do with bs personal **** between two old people then for the good of the actual sport.

Dag and Bel are games (which people seem to keep forgetting) where everyone benefits from playing both and having more people to hit and get hit by and party with.

And as to the whole Geezer alert thing: the internet is not for recruiting from each other. As far as i've seen the forum has helped bring the foam fighting community across the country closer and thus more people attend events farther away from them then they otherwise would have, which leads to larger events which leads to more awesomeness. At least that's how it has worked for me.

/rant done. sorry but the whole thing is just ridiculous. not even the whole no posting thing but the bs rivalry and then the name calling and the banning. gawd!

/takes deep breath. okay. really done now.

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

Acorn, hon, you are REALLY late to the Dag vs. Bel debate/argument/discussion/what-have-you. There are plenty of older threads that can better inform you on those issues/mindsets without having to re-hash it, again, here.

MMmmmm beer.