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Kage wrote:I don't know but I think the marshals that are passing it need to be taught what makes up armor.
Considering the rules regarding composite armor checking:BoW wrote:3.1.7. Composite - Armor constructed of both metal and leather.
3.2. Armor must be passed by Marshals from two separate realms, assuming an inter-realm event.
3.7.2. Composite Armor must be identifiable as Armor by appearance.
I would say that this is problem due to bad mashaling.
However, it's not just the marshals who broke the rules by allowing it but also the people who made it.BoW wrote:1.4. Creative interpretation of the rules to gain any advantage is discouraged. These rules are intentionally sparse to allow for ease of use. The Marshal, according to these rules, and medieval foam combat precedent, settles all disputes.
Now I don't see a need to add anything to the rules considering what Composite Armor is defined as. See rule 3.1.7 above. Anyone claiming that there thumb tac shirt is legal is a moron and they should have read the rules. Sorry if I sound crabby, but I'm seriously tired of stupid * debates. A cloth shirt with metal on it is NOT armor nor will it ever count as armor in my opinon; end of story. As for anyone who claims it is armor your realm leader should be taken out back and shot, because he failed to do his job in teaching you how the sport works; mean while you should be placed in front of every one and beaten with a hose.
Secondly armor if made right isn't encumbering. I have a friend who does backflips in his SCA plate. I'm not talking made with plastic; that doesn't fly in my area its all steel or get made fun of until you have it.
Probably going to post this in the other thread too.
Divit wrote:Not really sure why you guys are down on this Idea though...
Sieglatan wrote: it looks like you killed and skinned a tiny cow, and riveted the hide onto it.
Ignatius wrote:I love that he just got put in time out for a month!!!
Embara Cayosin wrote:I agree with the fact that studded cloth is not an accurate armor. i disagree with the fact that it offers no protection. sure a single layer of denim with metal studs in it will shred easily. but on the oposit end several layers of Denim or heavy canvas quilted together and the hardened and studded would be just as effective as chainmail. wasn't the purpose of chainmail to stop you from getting CUT only and to deflect the blows of SLASHING weapons. chainmail offers no protection from bludgeoning weapons. i can see a well made shirt of studded cloth (several layers of heavy canvas QUILTED and then stiffened and studded) offering this same protection. in contrast the life of the armor wouldnt nearly be as long as a shirt of chainmail would as over time i will eventually weaken and start to shred .
Embara Cayosin wrote: several layers of Denim or heavy canvas quilted together and the hardened and studded would be just as effective as chainmail.
Embara Cayosin wrote:
i can see a well made shirt of studded cloth (several layers of heavy canvas QUILTED and then stiffened and studded) offering this same protection.
Fitz Caliston wrote:
Having done armor type tests with crappy replica swords and knives in my younger days I can guarentee you that you are sadly mistaken. Search some of the cold steel cutting tests on youttube, or just google swords vs chainmail test, sword vs cloth test. Not even remotely close.
Sieglatan wrote: it looks like you killed and skinned a tiny cow, and riveted the hide onto it.
Ignatius wrote:I love that he just got put in time out for a month!!!
Embara Cayosin wrote:Fitz Caliston wrote:
Having done armor type tests with crappy replica swords and knives in my younger days I can guarentee you that you are sadly mistaken. Search some of the cold steel cutting tests on youttube, or just google swords vs chainmail test, sword vs cloth test. Not even remotely close.
all these are done against one or two layers of cloth of course it is going to cut right through when deliberately trying to cut them. in case you forgot denim was created for the heavy working class to protect ones legs from the harsh conditions in coal mines and such. before that heavy canvas was used (that's actuality all REAL denim is) but you cant see past two facts One Most swords are not Kept to a razor shape edge like knifes are. the edges are rounded over to keep the blade fro being nicked during blade on steel contact. and two you would be designing this to be armor. so you would have 15+ layers of the stuff. id like to see someone cut that many layers of HEAVY cloth with a proper sword.
a well made piece would also have the fabric Grain alternating which would minimize how many layers would be cut through. liek chainmail this would only be efficient against slashing attacks. ans as was pointed out earlier arrows would stick in the cloth aswell.
Conclusion: a jack, worn by itself, is easily defeated by thrusting weapons, even those seemingly not optimized for the thrust. Acutely pointed longsword gripped in the half-sword position make short work of even 30 layer jacks. The ease with which the Talhoffer, Regent and Brescia Spadona penetrated the 30 layer jack makes me believe they would have no problem with a thicker jack or one made from thicker layers.
A jack, particularly one more than 10 layers thick is a very good defense against swords not optimized for the cut, but a cutting sword like a katana (and perhaps a falchion or messer) makes short work of them. The katana absolutely devastated the jack, and the Brescia Spadona, a civilian dueling longsword, was able to defeat a 20 layer jack. Very surprising indeed.
Where the jack rally shines is against arrows. Even a 10 layer jack stopped my arrows cold, and I believe medieval bodkins wouldn’t fare any better. These tests have gone a long way towards convincing me that the jack was used primarily as a defense against arrows.
When considering the effect of various swords on the jack, it is important to understand that the person wielding the sword has to be experienced. Some member of NYHFA with limited cutting experience also attempted to cut the jack, but they did not succeed. It’s not easy to penetrate a jack, not even with a good sword.
Based on the tests, I formed some impressions of the swords I used, and in closing, I’d like to share them with you:
Albion Talhoffer: perhaps the most versatile sword of the group, it cuts well against unarmored targets and has a deadly point that can pierce the thickest jack and given a sufficiently strong thrust, some very good maille.
Albion Earl/Regent: a powerful war sword that is tough enough for almost anything with an acute point that makes short work of textile armor.
Albion Brescia Spadona: the best cutter of any longsword I have ever used with a wicked point that can defeat any jack. It’s only weakness is derived from it’s strength as a cutter…it’s flexibility. However, used with a half-sword grip, that weakness disappears. I wouldn’t use it against maille, but then it was never intended for that.
My katana: what a weapon! Although I wouldn’t want to be caught in a duel with someone wielding a longsword (the thing is too short!), it feels like it can cut through anything and is a much better thruster than I thought.
Atrim 1508: an excellent and versatile all around sword. Not quite the cutter some of the Albions are against historically correct media, it handles as well as the Brescia and can take a lot of abuse without suffering edge damage.
Fitz Caliston wrote:Kage, my "heavy" set, the Brig in the first picture has a leather backing (not cloth), the same grade leather as the 3rd pic just inside out (rough side out). The leather in the 3rd picture was origninally going to be the outside layer for the brig but I liked the look of the Exposed plates so much that I left it off. Only last month did I take that Extra Leather layer out and studd it for 2pt Amt Armor.
The middle Pic is the cloth armor, it's nagahid, the heavy cloth with Vinyl coating, some call it pleather. It was originally made as wet/cold weather garb for winter time, I studded it for Amt as well, at least the torso section, I never have finished studding the whole thing.
The one you wear to Bel isn't aluminum either, is it? That'd be illegal.Fitz Caliston wrote:.....and that is when we cut out the aluminum plates...
Divit wrote:Tell ya what. I'll make a small section of this stuff, put a steak under it, then hack and slash it with the blades I've got around the house. If I succeed in making a brisket, then we can call it crap.
Forkbeard wrote:Because it looks cooler. Style is everything if the armor has no substance. That's the whole point.
If a person is going to do something low, like making intentionaly bare minimum armor, they had **** better make it look beatiful. That way it is a visual benifit to the field and everyone pictures at least.
Forkbeard wrote:Here's my new studded cuff gloves. Actually, they are my old gloves with studs.
Anyway, you get me.
If you use less studs per area than this, you are doing it wrong.
FB
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