Belegarth

by **duckymcfeelgood** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:53 am

As Head Herald/Day Events Coordinator at Ragnarok this year, I want to personally invite you all to come out and join us for a week of insanity and fun. Thats pretty much it. Show the **** up.

I guarantee you will enjoy many of the scenarios. I have fights that are just that... fights. No *, no objectives. Just kill them, don't die on the biggest field in foam sports. Many of my fights are based more on set ups than objectives, and even the objective fall into simple CTF or control point ideas. Should be great for people with a more Bele attitude.

I understand the crossover differences so you won't have to worry about someone not understanding where your coming from on rules issues, mainly archers call/clarity. But it is Dagorhir, so their rules. Duh...

Tourneys are being ran by Solusar on Thursday with finals being held Friday Night. Varadin/Dev are running an invite only tourney too, that will also be held Friday night. Team * is highly interested in the heralding of these tourneys, and you should expect very clean fighting.

I would love to see all of you out there, and I think you will enjoy the time.

by **Dangus** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:55 am

duckymcfeelgood wrote:I would love to see all of you out there, and I think you will enjoy the time.

It seems so welcoming, until every single person in Pennsylvania treats you like a piece of ****, just for being from Bel/The West. Sure was worth the 2000 mile drive.
I'm sorry but that experience has convinced me never to waste $50 on that event again.

by **Flynn Cu Maige** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:00 pm

* If you used the Belegarth trademark style leaning back with a whipstick to throw around the door your holding, that could have been why. Dag is waaaaaayyy more rough and tumble than people like to be in belegarth. i actually am officially a Dagorhir fighter due to my realms game affiliation. so i spent alot of time on their boards before turning local. the whip style is usually the chief complaint i see. either thaat or you were hangin around a bunch of *. in that case hang with other people?

either way your decision is yours just shedding some light on why dag is so angry with us..

by **Rocca** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:40 pm

* - You have, I'm sure, a good point about the annoyance of whipstick fighters behind big shields. In this case however, your point is unfounded against Dangus, one of the best, most physical, and honorable fighters in Western Bel.

That aside, * can be found everywhere.

As for Rag, I for one, if I could afford it, would love to attend the event. (sadly its out of the question, but still)

by **Slagar** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:37 pm

Dangus can have almost any Dag fighter he cares to for dinner, without breaking a sweat. I placed second in olympics 2010 s/b (behind PtQ), won the polearm tourney, and I took the 2008 rag s/b champ 8/10. Dangus beat my * when he visited last Geddon. If he caught **** at Rag it wasn't for his fighting, I promise.

edit: Dangus fights with a 26" round shield and a 28" bat. I don't know what a 'whipstick' is, but if it's anything like the wall and ball special that GtG rock he doesn't touch it.

Wish I could go, Ducky. With you and Sol running **** this'll be the best Rag in a very, very long time. I'd love to make it my first. Stupid real life.

by **Blackhawk** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:18 pm

Dangus wrote:
duckymcfeelgood wrote:I would love to see all of you out there, and I think you will enjoy the time.

It seems so welcoming, until every single person in Pennsylvania treats you like a piece of ****, just for being from Bel/The West. Sure was worth the 2000 mile drive.
I'm sorry but that experience has convinced me never to waste $50 on that event again.

I hope that Dag and Bel have been getting along much better over the last couple of years. It seems that both Dag and Bel have become much more welcoming of each other lately. I think mostly due to the fact that both games seem to be policing their own. Many of us in Dag are no longer allowing people to badmouth Bel. I know that is what I do now. One of the ways to help relations continue on this trend is to refrain from making sweeping generalizations about the conduct of a few people in either game. I, for one, will treat Bel fighters with the same respect I would show anyone in Dag. I don't think it should matter what game you play when you are at Rag, we are all there to have fun, one of the best ways to accomplish that is to treat everyone with respect.

by **Dane** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:09 am

one of the best ways to accomplish that is to treat everyone with respect.

I hope you get struck by lightning. Again.

by **varadin** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:43 am

I kinda wish I had been able to make rag earlier last year to show dangus that not all of Rag is bad people. I know when he got there he had a pretty bad start to the week with a friend of his not being allowed in and ended the week pretty terribly. I know moses had a similar terrible start but by the end of the week was having a good time.

Rag is so big anymore you can pretty much just ignore the * if you want to and still have a pretty awesome time on and off the field fighting who you want to fight. Seriously if you are a bele fighter and having a **** time at rag find me, ill put you in touch with the right people.

No matter what your opinion, I trust that this years rag should be the best in a while. Garb gates that actually will enforce garb, a head herald who wants to have fun and is listening to opinions, and a heads weapon checker who has a team of intellegent people helping him that will actually fail *.

by **duckymcfeelgood** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:56 am

Dangus wrote:
duckymcfeelgood wrote:I would love to see all of you out there, and I think you will enjoy the time.

It seems so welcoming, until every single person in Pennsylvania treats you like a piece of ****, just for being from Bel/The West. Sure was worth the 2000 mile drive.
I'm sorry but that experience has convinced me never to waste $50 on that event again.

Speaking as an organizer, Im sorry for the way our people treated you. Im from the midwest and a Dag fighter who crosses over. They treat me about the same cause you know... if your past Ohio, you fight Bele and couldn't possibly do Dag... right?

I will say, to follow up on what BH mentioned, that attitudes are getting alot better about this. I would hope you could give us another chance. He's running weapons check, Im running battles, our garb guy has done some crossover, and our night life person does alot of crossover. I think you will find a much more inviting and accepting attitude this year from the staff.

Trolls will be trolls thou. They treat our own people just as hard. Its an issue we are attempting to squash without being super controlling, but the nature of empowered nerds with sticks is hard to overcome. Do what I do and just beat their * all day.

I still hope alot of you guys come.

by **Flynn Cu Maige** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:54 am

Oh io dont know him personally so i dont know. i just thought id throw out the main reason i know why dag fighters can be *. Nice to hear theres more people who like to be rough. but it also shows those guys were just natrually * because hes from the west. in my opinion theyt are losing the game if they let that keep them from having fun, the fact that hes from elsewere i mean

as fort Rag definitely not in my near future ducky but im gonna see it before im old and gray. i hope,...

by **Dangus** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:45 pm

For the record, I may have been a bit extra grumpy yesterday when I posted that. So, sorry for coming off as extra coarse.

I know when he got there he had a pretty bad start to the week with a friend of his not being allowed in and ended the week pretty terribly

Purp, yes, notably a minor was not allowed to even stay on site during the event, due to having lost his I.D. (on the aforementioned 2000 mile drive) We were then told that due to some ridiculous laws in Pennsylvania that if Purp was without I.D. and notarized, written permission to be there, that there "hands were tied", and that only left them with the option of calling the police, so that he could be put put into and I quote: "proper custody".
It was the lack of any semblance of hospitality that made me the angriest. Here we are, three travelers from the opposite end of the country, who endured quite a lot of stress and hardship to go out and see this "great event" which takes place on one of the most legendary fighting fields in mock combat (armored or not), and we are treated like juveniles trying to sneak our buddy into some VIP area. It's not even that Purp wasn't allowed to fight, it's that he wasn't even allowed to camp with us (remember he's a minor travelling with us; the only people for 1500 miles in any direction that he knows). Our solution to keep him both, safe, warm and out of Police custody was to put him up in a Hotel 8 for the week, on Moses' ticket(Colin, you are a true friend and brother). I spent most of my Rag driving off site to spend time with my friend who had basically been abandoned.

On top of that I was regularly harassed by security, wherein I was asked for my Rag-Tag, then had it radio'd back, to make sure I hadn't stolen/acquired one, without paying, because... you know, I'm some dangerous lookin', pot-smellin' hippy. It was insulting, to say the least. I'm willing to chock some of this up to cultural differences (I think it's cute how smoking pot in Pennsylvania is sooooo hush-hush, for the record: I have a medical card.) But most of it was just straight up elitism.
After field battles one afternoon, I sought out a fighter with whom I had had a series of particularly enjoyable encounters. I attempted an introduction and offered a hand to shake, but I was literally snubbed, no literally, he looked at my hand, then up at me and scoffed in my face. Was that really called for? True, I spent the better part of the day, barreling over that dude and harassing his flank, but still... " camaraderie among fighters", anyone?

I kinda wish I had been able to make rag earlier last year to show dangus that not all of Rag is bad people

Seriously if you are a bele fighter and having a **** time at rag find me, ill put you in touch with the right people.

These two statements make me willing to reconsider. Perhaps you could also put me in touch with some "higher ups" because it seems like you need an introduction by someone before they'll listen to you. That said, I've got a few words for the organizers of last years' rag, that I wouldn't mind telling them, to their face.

I will say, to follow up on what BH mentioned

Irrelevant, out of date. No one is talking about inter-game relations, anymore, that was a decade ago. Despite why I think I was treated poorly, it does not necessarily reflect the attitudes of the whole. As far as I'm concerned, the idea of separate organizations is ridiculous, what we all do is foam-fighting. Drawing imaginary differences between them is harmful to foam-fighting on the whole, and it is that attitude (propagated mostly by old, bitter veterans) that offended me the most.

Let me repeat, for clarity; I am not offended by the fact that I was treated poorly for being from Bel and/or the West. I am offended by the notion that East Coast Dagorhir hasn't developed alongside the rest of the foam fighting world in shedding these pre-conceived notions.

by **Flynn Cu Maige** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:00 pm

As far as I'm concerned, the idea of separate organizations is ridiculous, what we all do is foam-fighting. Drawing imaginary differences between them is harmful to foam-fighting on the whole, and it is that attitude (propagated mostly by old, bitter veterans) that offended me the most.

Let me repeat, for clarity; I am not offended by the fact that I was treated poorly for being from Bel and/or the West. I am offended by the notion that East Coast Dagorhir hasn't developed alongside the rest of the foam fighting world in shedding these pre-conceived notions

well said sir. i gave up on the differances awhile ago. my specific rule book combines the strictest rules of each game so when i make weapons and fight i dont even have to think about the different games. i started playing cuz i like fighting with swords. i stayed because even as a newb at my first chaos wars, you people became MY people. im home here and i really think thats the spirit that should engulf foam fighting no matter where your from. were a big goofy nerdy family. we can be our insane selves and everyone's ok with it. its a game. just a game.once again thank you for that quote Dangus.

by **Kyrax** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:35 pm

Dangus – from your follow ups it didn’t sound like you were poorly treated for being from Bel, or out West. You ran into a series of things that left a sour taste for you. The first, about your minor friend should not have happened - reading the event rules before driving thousands of miles with a minor would have prevented that. The land owners, the Coopers, are the ones who set those rules, not Dagorhir, the RWC, or the event organizers. I had no idea about the weird PA laws they quoted at you, but in this day and age of Amber Alerts I can't say that I'm surprised. Nor would I be surprised if that was their final word on the matter when pressed to let your buddy Purp slip in (or if pushing it put you on Security’s “watch this guy” list for some reason).

The security radio-ing back and forth about Rag tags sounds odd too, unless again you got onto some kind of watch list for the issue at Troll. Sure, we all get asked every time we went in and even out of the event for our tags, but that's to make sure that everyone on site was waivered in, is an adult or a minor with a parent accompanying them, and had paid for the event. Every big event does that. As for your medical card, sorry buddy but as a fellow card carry-er, you and I both know it means absolutely nothing outside your home state (and only so much inside it). Yeah, some folks are persnickety about the stuff, just as others would have reacted similarly if you'd seemed young and been reeling around carrying a big jug of whiskey. If looking like a hippie got folks hassled at Ragnarok, security would be overwhelmed.

As for the jerk on the field, no it probably wasn't called for. Don't matter what game he plays or you play, the guy acted like a jerk. Maybe he is like that always, or maybe he had a bad day, or it was that time of the month, or he just didn't like getting pwned by some guy he didn't know. I’m not sure I’d have been too friendly if you’d spent the day “barreling over” me either, but I’d hope that I’d at least accept the introduction and handshake – then I’d know who I was aiming at next time.

Like Flynn, I’m happy to cross game and welcome cross gamers to events I host. There aren’t enough of us out West to get prickly about it. Just helped run an event for a new local realm and after the “New Person’s lecture” on rules, one guy joked with me that he was kind of tickled to be a newb after fighting since the early 90’s in SCA and Amtgard.

by **Dangus** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:29 pm

eing from Bel, or out West. You ran into a series of things that left a sour taste for you. The first, about your minor friend should not have happened - reading the event rules before driving thousands of miles with a minor would have prevented that

Wrong. He had an I.d. and proper paper work. It was lost during an extremely long trip, during which our van broke down in Iowa. Lost to me were also several hundred dollars worth o electronics and sleeping gear from the same incident.

The land owners, the Coopers, are the ones who set those rules, not Dagorhir, the RWC, or the event organizers.

I don't care. If I were running an event and someone went through all of that to get to it, I sure as hell would bend the rules and not leave them with the choice of "do what we say or get out". This is called hospitality.

Nor would I be surprised if that was their final word on the matter when pressed to let your buddy Purp slip in (or if pushing it put you on Security’s “watch this guy” list for some reason).

Right? Because we were asking for such an unreasonable thing. Don't grasp at straws, it was profiling.

The security radio-ing back and forth about Rag tags sounds odd too, unless again you got onto some kind of watch list for the issue at Troll. Sure, we all get asked every time we went in and even out of the event for our tags, but that's to make sure that everyone on site was waivered in, is an adult or a minor with a parent accompanying them, and had paid for the event. Every big event does that. As for your medical card, sorry buddy but as a fellow card carry-er, you and I both know it means absolutely nothing outside your home state (and only so much inside it). Yeah, some folks are persnickety about the stuff, just as others would have reacted similarly if you'd seemed young and been reeling around carrying a big jug of whiskey. If looking like a hippie got folks hassled at Ragnarok, security would be overwhelmed.

I get the real world purpose of it. But I was asked and checked, sometimes double checked, to the point of insanity. The med-card thing was a joke, really. I smoke pot, openly and I don't give a * if that concept offends anyone. I won't blow it in your face, but I also won't go ridiculously out of my way to avoid you, either. As to your alcohol example; Moses was harassed repeatedly for being drunk, accused of being on psychedelic mushrooms, even. Someone should tell the Rag security that everyone's eyes dilate when you shine a light in them, in the middle of the night.

I’m not sure I’d have been too friendly if you’d spent the day “barreling over” me either, but I’d hope that I’d at least accept the introduction and handshake – then I’d know who I was aiming at next time.

I thought we were playing this "rough and tumble" game, here? If some dude were able to **** me up that bad over and over, I'd sure as hell wanna make friends with that dude. The people who work you over the hardest are the ones you can learn the most from, if you don't let your ego get in the way.

by **randy** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:26 pm

Dangus wrote:I thought we were playing this "rough and tumble" game, here? If some dude were able to **** me up that bad over and over, I'd sure as hell wanna make friends with that dude. The people who work you over the hardest are the ones you can learn the most from, if you don't let your ego get in the way.

You know as well as I do bro that some people like the rough and tumble and some people like to talk like they do. My guess is you brought a little more heat than they were used to and instead of being good sports about it and learning from the experience, they decided you were obviously cheating and were being an *.

The first several years we attended bel here in cali, we were treated the same way by DAG and BEL fighters. Ana was the only one that continually invited us back, most everyone else * about our 12 ounce weapons and our plank shields. Now, most of the California vets know us and accept our cultural differences.

by **duckymcfeelgood** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:20 am

Unfortunately, the mentality left over from the split hasn't filtered out yet from everyone... and both sides are to blame, even if the Dag side is more to blame.

But **** that ****..... It don't **** matter at RAG *!!!

by **Kyrax** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:16 pm

Dangus wrote:
eing from Bel, or out West. You ran into a series of things that left a sour taste for you. The first, about your minor friend should not have happened - reading the event rules before driving thousands of miles with a minor would have prevented that

Wrong. He had an I.d. and proper paper work. It was lost during an extremely long trip, during which our van broke down in Iowa. Lost to me were also several hundred dollars worth o electronics and sleeping gear from the same incident. .

Yet another bad incident on your trip that just added to your hassles. Again, I feel for you, having the van break down and apparently losing stuff (having it stolen?), not fun at all.

But no, your buddy did not have proper paperwork unless he had court papers that awarded you or another adult Legal Guardianship on a permanent basis. We’re not talking about a notarized waiver or letter assigning you in loco parentis rights, but real legal guardianship. I’m not even sure how the Coopers would look at things if he was an emancipated minor.

Dangus wrote:
The land owners, the Coopers, are the ones who set those rules, not Dagorhir, the RWC, or the event organizers.
I don't care. If I were running an event and someone went through all of that to get to it, I sure as hell would bend the rules and not leave them with the choice of "do what we say or get out". This is called hospitality. .

No, it has nothing to do with hospitality. Dagorhir and Ragnarok had a contractual obligation to not allow ANY minor on site who wasn’t with their parent, or court appointed legal guardian. If you were running an event and you had agreed to specific conditions to that event being allowed to run at that site, would you really fail to live up to those agreements? Maybe you would if you didn’t mind the risk of having the event cancelled and everyone being sent home early, or being sued or losing the ability to ever return to that site again.

Dangus, seriously you’re talking silly. I get it that you had a terrible trip, and this was just the cherry on top of it (or one of several cherries). But get back to us when you’ve found a site for a large event, worked out arrangements with the property owners or management and hosted it successfully. Then tell us how you relate to the other side on this incident. My guess is that your opinion may be different after walking a few leagues in the other guy’s shoes.

I hate telling people no, and having to give them bad news. But it’s part of life – we can’t always give everyone what they want. It’s a part of running events, from weapons checking to Troll, to safety patrols and so on.

Dangus wrote:
I’m not sure I’d have been too friendly if you’d spent the day “barreling over” me either, but I’d hope that I’d at least accept the introduction and handshake – then I’d know who I was aiming at next time.
I thought we were playing this "rough and tumble" game, here? If some dude were able to **** me up that bad over and over, I'd sure as hell wanna make friends with that dude. The people who work you over the hardest are the ones you can learn the most from, if you don't let your ego get in the way.

Hey, I agree the guy was a jerk about it. It is a full contact game, but some folks let ego get in the way of sportsmanship. Me, I’d try to “no be there” after you’d run me over the first time, well that and try to hit you with an arrow before you get close enough. As an archer I’m going to target the better fighters when I can, and I know they’re going to try to take out the archers when they can. It’s a game and we laugh about it and tell tall tales over a beer afterwards.

Given where we both are, way out here on the Left Coast, we’ll run into one another at some event or another. Maybe I’ll finally get up to Western Wars or back to Chaos, or you’ll come down to Cali for the War of Silica Vale, or Battle for the Ring, or to Fool’s Raid. When we do I’ll stand you to a beer or some mead and we can swap war stories and laugh about it.

by **Peanut of Loderia** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:59 pm

Having went to Rag last year also, I'll drop my opinion here. Rag as a whole was a very "meh" event for me. There were good things: hangng out with friends I dont get to see, finding new fighters that are good that I havent ever encountered (Albion and NQ), * around with a huge william wallace poster and having experienced a different take on foam fighting. There were more bads than good, unfortunately: some fighters not taking hits alot (the heralds seemed undermanned and too timid), event staff being rude to me (granted, the group i was camping with had some sort of incident beforehand that i was unaware of), abhorrent weapon checkers, field battles taking twenty minutes between rounds (or thats how it felt). Plus, I've really gotten used to being fed at least once, though i knew that coming in.

As i said, Rag was a meh event for me. Some of these could be rectified by better staffing, but in the end it wasn't so amazing I would drive 8 hours again unless through massive amounts of persuasion and other people going. Doesnt mean Ducky will stop trying to get me to go this year.

by **MeleeMoses** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:23 pm

Dangus.

I Love You.

by **duckymcfeelgood** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:01 pm

Well I know of three things on your list Peanut that were reasons I volunteered for the job in the first place. Im hoping to be able to get them under control.

Man power is the major key, and I have been open and honest about needing people to help from the get go. Trying to set a One Hour volunteering precedent, going to companies as a whole trying to get them to volunteer as a whole, and alot of public support for this have been keeping my hopes up, but we will truly have to wait and see.

The hit taking has been an issue for a while, and is number one on my list... you know, like it should be and should have been for years. We are really working hard towards getting people use to shot acknowledgement for calling off blows. If not, we will be calling them dead once, twice, booting them for the fight, then for the day. I have no friends with many of the biggest offenders, so I have no fear in calling them out on their *.

Anytime between two set up fights i plan on running a quick grinder fight or two/what you would mainly do at a Bele event. Some hour slots are only those kind of fights, just in cool set ups.

And if only they were 20 min. They were more like 30 to 40 min at times. I hate lulls. You may get 10min between my stopping a fight and me asking you to walk to the next field (three set ups at a time on my biggest two days), then about 10min before that fight explanation gets re-briefed (big write ups as you walk onto the field, not to mention simple objectives) then its go time.

I would love to see a huge feast too, but its not a Rag thing. Camps thou are really awesome about it.

by **randy** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:21 pm

duckymcfeelgood wrote:The hit taking has been an issue for a while, and is number one on my list... you know, like it should be and should have been for years. We are really working hard towards getting people use to shot acknowledgement for calling off blows. If not, we will be calling them dead once, twice, booting them for the fight, then for the day. I have no friends with many of the biggest offenders, so I have no fear in calling them out on their *.

Im curious about this. Since as I understand it, Bel and Dag are sufficient force standards... How do you intend to set a sufficient force level for the entire event?

Currently, I use Sir Kyrian as my calibration level. If I receive too many complaints about me sluffing, I ask him to hit me with what a bel legal shot should be, and then go back to fighting. If people do not hit me to that level, then I try my best to call light or let them know after the fact why I didn't take it.

Is there going to be someone setting a calibration level for the field? and how are you going to verify the heralds are experienced enough to know when a shot should have been legal and when its not? I have had inexperienced heralds miss calls on me, that even my opponent had to correct them. Is this this something you have considered?

I bring it up mainly because poor heralding is often what I have seen cause an even to go from great to terrible very quickly.

by **Rocca** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:06 am

evil randy wrote:I bring it up mainly because poor heralding is often what I have seen cause an even to go from great to terrible very quickly.

This.

* - In my experience, one of the easiest ways to help inexperienced heralds improve is by talking to them about "sound calibration", so to speak. Although we are a sufficient force game, so TECHNICALLY its up to the hit-ee (rather then hitter), a good solid hit has a certain sound that people can hear. Its not the end all be all of heralding, but pointing out to inexperienced heralds that sound IS an aspect of a good hit can help them avoid calling shots that were actually sluffy.

Now I've only been at one event that you attended so I can't speak for the rest, however the heralding at Battle for the Ring WAS inexperienced. It was GREAT/AWESOME to see so many people heralding and being interested in heralding at the event - way to go event coordinators for getting that kind of volunteer turnout - however with that many people it can lead to a few overzealous individuals. In general, Bel heralds have a tendency to UNDERCALL, rather then overcall, IMO.

by **varadin** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:08 am

Its not about setting a standard for hit taking, its about setting a standard for communication for shots. In years past at rag there has been a lot of just not taking shots and not calling light at times. If you arent calling these things you are going to be called a cheater and dead. If you continue to be bad about it take a seat for a while.

Different areas will always play with different calibrations. I can tell you ohio alone from one side of the state you see no hit calibration to a pretty standard medium or better shot on the other side of the state. The difference is when a shot is light its called light, thats exceptable. Calling a shot light, glance, graze, off the block something like that prevents a lot of people getting angry about cheating.

by **MagnusofDregoth** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:01 pm

Ducky, I feel more comfortable saying this here than on the Dag board--I am glad that you are taking advantage of the time you have been given (i.e. not three and a half months) to plan adequately for this event. I know that a lot of people were dissatisfied with the way I ran the day events Ragnarok 25, and none of them more than me. Manpower is key, whether on the field and off, and I will do anything I can to make sure that your experience is better than my own. That is, to make sure that you aren't constantly asking for more heralds and being ignored, or getting stuck doing everything at once.

That being said...I have to leave Thursday so I can go teach Greek to high school kids.

by **randy** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:53 pm

Varadin wrote:Calling a shot light, glance, graze, off the block something like that prevents a lot of people getting angry about cheating.

My complaint with this is, its not in the rules. Nothing says or even suggests that I should communicate with my opponent why I didn't take someone. Now, obviously we don't want to over legislate something, but as an amtgarder, I was not accustomed to calling light on anything.

So there were alot of hard feelings when shots glanced off or were partially blocked and I just kept fighting. Generally, I wasn't calling light because I thought my opponent knew his/her shot was weak, after all they kept swinging. I realize the culture is that you communicate, but there isn't always the time.

I explained to a very upset fighter at battle for the ring that if he thought I was cheating him by not taking his shots, there was a very very simple solution. Hit me harder. In his case, I wasn't calling light because he wasn't connecting with the majority of his shots. He thought he was, but he hadn't fought many people who actually knew how to block apparently. In an effort to help him though, I began calling every block, headshot, non-strike legal padding shot, and light. Funny he got more upset when I communicated than when I just kept fighting.

by **Kyrax** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:09 pm

evil randy wrote:
Varadin wrote:Calling a shot light, glance, graze, off the block something like that prevents a lot of people getting angry about cheating.

My complaint with this is, its not in the rules. Nothing says or even suggests that I should communicate with my opponent why I didn't take someone. Now, obviously we don't want to over legislate something, but as an amtgarder, I was not accustomed to calling light on anything.

You hit the nail on the head, we don't want to over-legislate. It's a culture thing and when you visit, it's what some folks expect. The guy who got cranky when you kept blocking stuff, well, that happens - some folks need to get taken down a peg sometimes. That's part of the point of going to events in other realms, to get a better guage on how the game is played elsewhere and to see where you stand in the pecking order. I'm always amused when somebody who is so used to owning the field at home gets owned at an event. It's also where cross-gaming is useful, as we can learn from each other more than just new tricks.

by **Dane** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:26 pm

I don't care to hear someone call light or garb. My philosophy is "If it's good, they'll take it, and if not, they won't." For whatever reason, we have a culture that assumes someone's cheating unless he verbally says "your shot wasn't good" instead of just physically displaying the same thing by not taking a wound. The only thing I want to hear is "head" so I know to lay off so you can get your bearings back and "armor" so I know how many shots and where it's going to take to kill you.

by **MagnusofDregoth** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:23 am

Well put, Dane. I personally have gotten into the habit of calling everything that touches me, because the founder of my group here in Tally says "Eh, thumps, taps, grazes, slaps, I take 'em all" and many of the fighters (who have been fighting for 2 years or less) tend to take hits that way. So, in order to demonstrate that I am following the rules rather than cheating, I feel compelled to say "Yes, you touched me with your sword, but that was not a Dagorhir hit" or something to that effect. One of them didn't believe me when I told him that, if you grapple someone's wrist, it makes them unable to hit you, since he showed me that he could, in fact, move his wrist around and get his sword to touch my arm.

by **Thrush Svartehjertet** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:32 am

Dangus wrote:On top of that I was regularly harassed by security, wherein I was asked for my Rag-Tag, then had it radio'd back, to make sure I hadn't stolen/acquired one, without paying, because... you know, I'm some dangerous lookin', pot-smellin' hippy. It was insulting, to say the least. I'm willing to chock some of this up to cultural differences (I think it's cute how smoking pot in Pennsylvania is sooooo hush-hush, for the record: I have a medical card.) But most of it was just straight up elitism.

I'm from Darkon, I help RUN SECURITY for the entire event. Please define your harassing. Was it our volunteers at the front entrance to the camp ground who you must show your tags to to leave (so that you will have them upon return to prove you paid to get in)? I did not over hear any radio chatter about checking tags... I can't fathom any of us WANTING to spend our time doing that... I'm sorry for any inconvenience we may have caused you.

For future info, please spread the word, NO MINORS ARE ALOWED ON SITE AT RAGNAROK unless their parent/guardian is ACTUALLY WITH them. Period.

Also, marijuana is illegal in PA. We have to ask you to leave if you get caught with anything illegal, other wise the event runs risks. That's actually the only thing Security is there for, protect people's safety and protect the event. And for the love of god, know that we are NOT looking for it... It's a stick dork event... if you look... you'll find. You gotta be pretty * to get our attention with pot. For realz..

Feel free to PM me any concerns, I'd like Security to always come off in the least offensive manner possible. Mostly, we don;t even want to do this on our time off, but it is necessary...

Sorry you didnt have a good time, and I'd never scoff at you for asking to shake my hand, that's rude anywhere in the USA.

Thrush / Sebastian

by **Thrush Svartehjertet** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:36 am

Dangus wrote:As to your alcohol example; Moses was harassed repeatedly for being drunk, accused of being on psychedelic mushrooms, even. Someone should tell the Rag security that everyone's eyes dilate when you shine a light in them, in the middle of the night.

Jesus christ... Who the hell was bothering you, please PM me... this is retarded.

Thrush / Sebastian
Rag Security

by **varadin** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:43 pm

Thrush it was scarlet I talked to him after I got in on wednesday and found moses flipping out * in DA camp. He was worried he was drugged out of his mind instead he was just upset and accusing people of things doesn't really help the situation. He then told me he was making sure he wasn't up to no good. It was some *, but i tried to find out since Moses had been cool with me at Geddon litterly 5 days before. After 25 i think security was playing it a bit extra secure the first few days of 26 after the actions of at least 1 random drugged out guy who left on monday night.

As for that pot comment remember how I cam up to you and told you about a few guys at rag 24? and you told me "dude its people vacation just let them be". Please enforce these claims you make on the internet, i know things are a bit more cracked down at coopers but you have looked the other way a lot before.

by **Peanut of Loderia** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:42 pm

Ducky: I understand its a man power thing. Luckily in Bel we've started to develop a culture of volunteering to help run events. I know I can walk into two camps, talk to their leader, and get 40 plus people. And not just the petitioners. The leaders also. There is some of that in Dag, but not enoug hat the moment.

Maybe offer a discount to anybody who helps out for a certain amount of time? Like 5 bucks for a couple (or 4) hours up to like 15 bucks? I dont know Rags money situation, nor do I care since they seem to be touchy about it. But if you could offer that, check them when they do their hours, and then refund them when they leave that could help people get their **** together.
As for the awesome people who already volunteer: give them super shiny different tags?

On the hit taking thing: We wouldnt need to worry about light etc calls if people didnt get sandy. And lets be honest: its not the newbs the majority of the time. Its the vets. At every event over the last year the first 4 people I saw toss their **** in a huff or mouth off about cheaters were 5+ year vets. And at least one was a Knight. So light etc calls jsut help the game run smoothly.

On Dag hit taking: At Rag I called everything. I even got told by two different heralds that I didnt need to call it that much. I jsut said no one could accuse me of cheating. But then I realized something; hit taking isn't reinforced in Dag (as a whole). The predominant attitude is its their fun, dont ruin it. They forget that sluffers ruin other people's fun. So if a herald sees something questionable he should ask. Not tell, ask. Preferably after the fight. If they say it was light, just ask politely that they call it next time. Same with hand.

by **Thrush Svartehjertet** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:10 am

Varadin wrote:
As for that pot comment remember how I cam up to you and told you about a few guys at rag 24? and you told me "dude its people vacation just let them be". Please enforce these claims you make on the internet, i know things are a bit more cracked down at coopers but you have looked the other way a lot before.

Thrush Svartehjertet wrote:
...And for the love of god, know that we are NOT looking for it... It's a stick dork event... if you look... you'll find. You gotta be pretty * to get our attention with pot. For realz..

Like I said, if you don't rub ANYTHING in our face, you don't force us to pretend to be rent a cops...

Our job is to think like this: what endangers the event? Including but not limited to, how will the Coopers react (who are on site), how will the police react (who we don't WANT on site), and is that safe?

Askarus of Sparta is head of Security this year. His rules fly and he's a pretty chill cat... In all of our meetings we have said, for this year, if we have to do NOTHING all week, we've done the best job ever. Now it's up to the attendees to follow the rules... Which a very small handful of people have a VERY hard time with. I feel for them, it's obvious they need attention.

Thrush
berserk

by **Thrush Svartehjertet** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:18 am

Peanut of Loderia wrote:Maybe offer a discount to anybody who helps out for a certain amount of time? Like 5 bucks for a couple (or 4) hours up to like 15 bucks? I dont know Rags money situation, nor do I care since they seem to be touchy about it. But if you could offer that, check them when they do their hours, and then refund them when they leave that could help people get their **** together.

I actually feel like everyone should WANT to volunteer a little time to help make events run smooth and fun for everyone... Not NEED a reward. But this is my gripe with our culture in this country these days, it's the whole "trophy for showing up" thing... But, that's prolly why the few of us who volunteer at Rag, feel so taken advantage of regularly... lol Go fig right?

As for money, far as I ever hear, it gets spent... There is no extra.

Peanut of Loderia wrote:
As for the awesome people who already volunteer: give them super shiny different tags?

**** yeah! I'll take a neat different tag. I'm a very simple viking... hehe

Thrush
berserk

by **duckymcfeelgood** » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:12 am

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.ph ... 995.0.html

I've had this posted since before Christmas. Im hoping this will help people to see how easy it is to volunteer, and then the sheer numbers I would have if those people did. I'm personally going to be spending my nights going from Camp to Camp, speaking with their leaders about the scenarios the next day, and trying to get more people in yellow on the field.

I've talked to the organizers at Rag, and they say with an event this huge, it would be hard to keep track, manage, and control a system of reimbursed volunteers, and would create a whole other nightmare for the people at Troll. I will offering quick shoulder massages if anyone feels they need to be reimbursed.

by **Angmarth** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:00 pm

Flynn Cu Maige wrote:* If you used the Belegarth trademark style leaning back with a whipstick to throw around the door your holding, that could have been why. Dag is waaaaaayyy more rough and tumble than people like to be in belegarth. i actually am officially a Dagorhir fighter due to my realms game affiliation. so i spent alot of time on their boards before turning local. the whip style is usually the chief complaint i see. either thaat or you were hangin around a bunch of *. in that case hang with other people?

either way your decision is yours just shedding some light on why dag is so angry with us..

Most of this thread I could care less about, but I actually take offense to this generalization. I can guarantee you that NO ONE that fights with a more physical game than the people in the greater St. Louis area. You MIGHT be as physical, but to say that DAG is WAYYYYYYYY more rough is not only completely ridiculous... for me it is downright insulting.

by **Peanut of Loderia** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:49 pm

Lol. Thanks Angmarth for resurrecting a thread I forgot I posted in. No offense to Flynn, but I dont think he's played Midwest Bel. Were a little different than West Coast.

Anyway, I've got nothing to make people help. Wait.....Got it. Thrush and a cattle prod. Boom. Problem solved.

by **Kyrax** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:51 pm

Angmarth wrote:
Flynn Cu Maige wrote:* If you used the Belegarth trademark style leaning back with a whipstick to throw around the door your holding, that could have been why. Dag is waaaaaayyy more rough and tumble than people like to be in belegarth. i actually am officially a Dagorhir fighter due to my realms game affiliation. so i spent alot of time on their boards before turning local. the whip style is usually the chief complaint i see. either thaat or you were hangin around a bunch of *. in that case hang with other people?

either way your decision is yours just shedding some light on why dag is so angry with us..

Most of this thread I could care less about, but I actually take offense to this generalization. I can guarantee you that NO ONE that fights with a more physical game than the people in the greater St. Louis area. You MIGHT be as physical, but to say that DAG is WAYYYYYYYY more rough is not only completely ridiculous... for me it is downright insulting.

And in response to his generalization, you generalize. I concede that you and your guys fight hard, not arguing that point at all. But from realm to realm, as well as chapter to chapter, fighting styles and levels vary. That's why big events are key - so that people can cross-pollinate and learn from each other.

The funny part to me is that when reading that bit about fighters leaning back behind a door all I could picture was the Gesteguiste and their signature ball-and-wall style that one sees all the time at Ragnarok.

by **Thrush Svartehjertet** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:04 am

Peanut of Loderia wrote:Anyway, I've got nothing to make people help. Wait.....Got it. Thrush and a cattle prod. Boom. Problem solved.

I'm so **** in!!!! rofl

Thrush
berserk

by **Soo Ma Tai** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:15 pm

Angmarth wrote:
Flynn Cu Maige wrote:* If you used the Belegarth trademark style leaning back with a whipstick to throw around the door your holding, that could have been why. Dag is waaaaaayyy more rough and tumble than people like to be in belegarth. i actually am officially a Dagorhir fighter due to my realms game affiliation. so i spent alot of time on their boards before turning local. the whip style is usually the chief complaint i see. either thaat or you were hangin around a bunch of *. in that case hang with other people?

either way your decision is yours just shedding some light on why dag is so angry with us..

Most of this thread I could care less about, but I actually take offense to this generalization. I can guarantee you that NO ONE that fights with a more physical game than the people in the greater St. Louis area. You MIGHT be as physical, but to say that DAG is WAYYYYYYYY more rough is not only completely ridiculous... for me it is downright insulting.

This is completely true. We had a transfer fighter from Numenor out to Stygia. After multiple complaints from our members I had to actually ask him to reign it back a bit, not hit quite so hard, etc.

by **Hakan** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:01 pm

Sorry.

by **Dane** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:41 pm

Atta boy.

by **Soo Ma Tai** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:16 am

Different strokes for different folks, it's no big deal Hakon.

by **Slagar** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:12 am

Dane wrote:Atta boy.

by **duckymcfeelgood** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:13 pm

lol... regionalism

by **Forkbeard** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:24 pm

I only read about half that nonsense up there. I truely don't care.
Me and Mary are going to Rag for sure. Everyone who can should come to.
It will ROCK.
Be there or be square.
FB

by **Thrush Svartehjertet** » Wed May 09, 2012 12:35 pm

Forkbeard wrote:I only read about half that nonsense up there. I truely don't care.
Me and Mary are going to Rag for sure. Everyone who can should come to.
It will ROCK.
Be there or be square.
FB

I get there Tuesday night, sir. We should drink some beers. And talk about how glaives are the best thing ever invented.

Thrush
berserk

by **Solusar** » Thu May 10, 2012 8:31 am

Wish I could be there

by **bishopx** » Thu May 10, 2012 10:15 am

meh about a month and a half late but if anyone complains about day events at rag 25 they can blame me, I had to bail at rather last minute and left Magnus in a pretty crappy position. Not his fault, mine, and I felt awful about it.

So if anyone gives you crap Magnus or complains about that still, tell them to come whine to me.

by **Thrush Svartehjertet** » Fri May 11, 2012 8:35 am

bishopx wrote:meh about a month and a half late but if anyone complains about day events at rag 25 they can blame me, I had to bail at rather last minute and left Magnus in a pretty crappy position. Not his fault, mine, and I felt awful about it.

So if anyone gives you crap Magnus or complains about that still, tell them to come whine to me.

Nice honesty. That is a **** situation to be in. I have not volunteered to run Security for Rag for the last 2 years, as I have not known until close to before the event how many days I'll be there. I am now officially helping advise the head of Security. I don't want to step up and volunteer to run a department and then only show up for 3 days or less...

Thrush
berserk

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