Newest project: Full Arm harness -Completed!!-

[Enderonimus]

This is my newest project, a custom arm harness commisioned by Zurokk. The piece will be based upon this sketch:


I will try to be as accurate and precise to the sketch as possible, but there will be some differences.
I didn't want to post anything until I had the patterns done and basically had something to post. Also, I am off my day job on the weekends, so that will allow for me to answer and respond at length instead of short, one line answers like those throughout the week.
Started off with a basic arm harness I had done in the past, both out of stainless and solid brass, but when I made the pattern out, turned out to be more of a 16th century jousting arm harness, which is fine and all, but not following along with the job. ie:



So, did some trimming and resizing, and made the more martial version you see here. Still wraps the elbow joint, which is what I want, but is not a full counter as in the jousting harness:





Overall, pleased with the arm harness pattern thus far, may need some more trimming as the material is cut.
Here is the pattern for the Loica pauldron. Again, had a pattern ready for a typical English style jousting pauldron, but that did not keep with the sketch, so designed this from scratch. Will lay much better when cut from leather, and will design the custom hault gaurde once I have the leather assembled.





I will next cut out all the pieces in leather tommorow, and start pre-assembly. Toughest job I think will be designing the custom dye for the piece, as Zurokk uses Olive-Green and black, and I've been unable to find an olive-green dye anywhere. I could always paint it, but I dont wanto to cheap-en this piece, I want the color to be permanent and last, so I only want to use dyes. I've been asking around and found out how to make olive-green, so I will begin that step shortly.
All-in-all, the project is going along well, And i hope to have it completed by this time next week. I'm posting as I go with this piece, so we can discuss and debate with this project, and you guys can watch it proceed.

Thanks for all the support and feedback and good luck to everyone in all their projects!

[Karne]

Ender, that looks fanfreakintastic!

If it turns out anything like that sketch, rose petals will fall from the heavens and they'll ring church bells in celebration of your skill!

Well, maybe not, but it's still cool to nerds like us!

I remember reading on Tandy's site that you can mix dyes just as you would paint, so you can have any color of dye under the sun. Maybe try to make your own olive green if it can't be found elsewhere.

[Enderonimus]

Thanks deth!
Yeh, thats the plan with the dye. I talked to a graphic designer who gave me the "formula" for making olive green paint, so I just need to experiment and find the right mixture of dyes. Excited about it all!

[Ramius]

"Yellow and blue makes green!" lol

Good luck on the green dye. The patterns look good escept I was wondering if the upper arm is going to be attached to the lorica pauldron at all?

Having worn floating arms as such before, having that upper arm not attached to anything but the cop sucks. It shifts constantly down if not either attached to the pauldron, or supported by attachment to an arming garment.

Just a thought, everything else looks good!

-Ramius

[Enderonimus]

Thank you, Ramius. I was actually planning on keeping the full arm and pauldron as seperate pieces, but the pauldron will overlap the rearbrace of the arrm harness, so keeping those 2 as one shouldn't be a problem.
As far as dye goes, Iwish it was a simple green. Tandy sells 3 shades of green. I need to make olive-green, similar to a military camo color. But I have a template and experiment all lined up and ready.
Updates soon on the project!

[Ramius]

No prob. When you figure out the mix, if ya don't mind sharing, I wouldn't mind having a recipes for Olive Drab. Never thought about using it til now!

You seem like a cool dude that makes good armor. Plus you have an "us" at the end of your name.

I like you already

Where yah play at?

-Ramius

[Big King Jimmy]

I would connect the two as well. If I ever got an articulated arm that slid at all I think I'd go a little crazy.

[Enderonimus]

Yeh, I think I will probably include a strap for connecting the arm and pauldron. makes a whole lotta sense. Thanks guys!
Yeh, I definetly plan to share the color experiment here. Olive drab should look real nice!
I was most recently fighting out of louisville, ky with the guys from Dun Abhon, but a new baby and killer gas prices kind of ground me temporarily, so I'm turning that untapped rage into armour design and production!

[Soong]

You should do a step by step photo tutorial of this project. Something the greenhorn armor smith can view to learn a bit about complicated articulated armor construction.
Oh, and borrow someone elses camera.

[widigo]

The only part that doesn't seem, well I don't want to say simple, but doable is the elbow. I wouldn't know where to begin. It would be great to hear a little more about that and the Lorica Segmenta style (as a Roman Lover I am so into this).

[Enderonimus]

Heh, you really hate my camera, Soong! I plan on buying a new one asap.
Im redo-ing the pauldron, as with further examination, seems a little too "tight" and does not articulate enough. Leather gives a lot more than steel. Basically enlarging the lames and making a more open articulation, ie:


The elbow is basically shaped something like this:


You attach the points together and viola! leather elbow cop!

If you guys like i'll do a thorough walk through on construction of a piece like this once I get this one all done. I'm just excited to get it done and to the owner!

I'll discuss more of roman style armors when I have more free time, 'digo. Glad to hear you're a fan of their styles too.

[Aegis]

you can also do an elbow without sewing/overlapped leather to rivet by using a diamond, the tall ends wrap around the elbow and the short ends stick out vertically. its how my elbows were done.

it just depends how fitted a look you want. enders style fits the more european look imo.

[widigo]

It also covers greatly. It's the unexpected brilliance of a new fighter that can place a blow in the small area I happened to not cover. Im bel I am pretty sure that armor covers a general area, but we sometimes play different.

I think I get what you are saying though. It does seem a lot simpler.

[Enderonimus]

I agree with Aegis that his style is also an option, but the style I use is more of a !6th century elbow joint. It is a European style, but the one Aegis was referring to is not restricted to asian armors but earlier period pieces. I always called Aegis' style "soupcan style" ie:



I always preferred the latter style, as that was the last, and I feel ultimatley advanced, era of medieval armors. That style of elbow fully encompasses a bent elbow joint, as in:


Cutting out the arms today and finishing the new pauldron pattern. More to come!

[widigo]

hows the articulation of the elbow you have used though.

[Enderonimus]

Well, the arm harness I'm making now uses whats called, "floating" articulation, in that it uses leather strips attached from piece to piece to articulate it, not directly attached to each other to articulate. Finds that leaves for a much smoother, easier movement thats not restrictive.
Standard articulation:


Floating articulation:

[Aegis]

ya i agree , floating articulation is far superior

[widigo]

I know what floating articulation is. Believe it or not I actually read the links you provided me when I asked some time ago.

I was asking if it hinders movement at all. it looks like it would dig into your arm when you held your arm without bending it.

[Aegis]

ive not run across that problem, are you referring to the floating strap touching your skin? if so , the weight of the armor rest on the straps holding the leather to you, it will bounce off your skin, but i havent run into any digging, just jostling, which is no different than the armor itself really...
actually the straps tend to be lighter leather, so even less so...

[widigo]

You see, I've never actually worn this stuff so I am judging this from only the way it looks. I actually went and found a solo cup to examine the concept with and it works pretty smoothly.

You can expect me to ask stupid questions until I become a working man and can make my own.

I know talking money on a forum is usually in bad taste, but for the sake of our education could you please tell me what this peace is valued at. What are you charging him? I think you have said it before, but I can't remember. My brain want's to say 300$.

[Ramius]

I know talking money on a forum is usually in bad taste, but for the sake of our education could you please tell me what this peace is valued at. What are you charging him? I think you have said it before, but I can't remember. My brain want's to say 300$.

As an interesting segue, I recently read a thread on the Armour Archive boards that talked about people believing armor should cost more than it actually does.

Just a thought

-Ramius

[Enderonimus]

I was asking if it hinders movement at all. it looks like it would dig into your arm when you held your arm without bending it.

I think I understand what you mean, that is when your arm is held at a direct straight line the elbow strap will dig into the fold of the elbow. Well, if you think about fighting or even any casual stance, you are never completely erect, a straight line from head to toe. (Unless of course if you're in the military! God, I remember those 8 hour "stand-at-attention" drills. Killed!!) The natural relaxed state is one of where the joints are all bent, and even in combat, the fighter is loose and mobile, not static ans stiff. Good question, though!

Now, as far as price goes, I'm probably not at liberty to discuss the exact dollar amount that was negotiated between me and a client. That is kinda privilidged information, unless he wants to share, I probably shouldn't. What I can tell you is how much I would charge for a set of arm harnesses and full pauldrons though. Again, I'm still in the develoupment stage of my armory business, so these may change once I realize how stupid I am!!
Set of full pauldrons: $100
Set of arm harnesses: $125
Custom dyeing/coloring: $20
Miscellaneous customizations (ie: hault gaurds,small tooling) $20

As far as making armor, one is never going to get rich doing this. If you find the right niche, find the right market, are clever enough and truely talented with your patterns and pieces; you can make a living with this. You just need to stay ahead of the "fad" in armor, be willing to compromise your personal taste and likes, and be persistant and dedicated to your business! It never hurts to have a backup plan, too!

[Soong]

Update plz?

[Enderonimus]

Sorry, guys, getting a bit distracted here and forgeting to post.
Got all my patterns done and all the leather cut. Once I get the leather put together with screws and see how it looks, I'll be ready for the dye stage. I'll post some pics tomorrow of the patterns and pieces thus far. Real happy with how the patterns turned out, the pauldrons proved to be a task, mixing both the features of floating and standard articulation, and working from scratch with no basis to work from, but they came out real nice and seem to move real good. Going to 'Geddon this Friday, so I plan to bring the completed harness, along with a few helms, with me.
Got to run to work but will post pics tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me, Soong!

[Soong]

any time!
GL at Geddon!

[Enderonimus]

Ok, big update here. Got all my pieces cut, edged, and beveled.
Got the elbow tooled,shaped, and hardened. I'm only going to harden the elbow, as: 1.It is not necessary to have Belegarth armor be rock hard,(which the finish-baked elbow is!), and 2. only the elbow hardened is really needed to keep that good shape.
Im going to stop by tandy in the morning and buy buckles, rivets, and what "D" rings I'll need.
Working on dyeing and final assembly tomorrow. Hope to bring it with me along with my tools and some scrap to show anyone who wants about tooling, patterning, and basic shaping at Armegeddon.
Also hope to bring along a couple of finished helms, as I know that Croatan and Aegis are both interested, as I want one extra nice one to sell off too!
Anyway, here's some photos:
Cut elbow:


With lines drawn for tooling pattern:



Tooling knife:


Poised to cut:


Begining to cut:


Finished cutting and tooling:


Tools used:


Hardened and shaped elbow:





Full arm harness ready for rough assembly and then dyeing:


More for you guys tomorrow. Thanks again!

[Elohssa Y'trid]

I'm really excited to see this in person once Zurokk gets it.

I'll have to kick him in the knee and steal it.

Great work, as usual.

[Enderonimus]

Thank you, Elhossa. Im calling this,"the arm of the Hat Troll." (Title still in develuopment! )

Got home from 3rd shift this morning and decided to harden the rest of the arm, since it attaches butt to the arm itself, want it stable and solid. pics:



Not going to heat treat the pauldrons,though, as they float on the shoulder, I need them as soft and flexible as possible. May heat the initial first lame so it maintains that shape I want, but we'll see.

Off to tandy now for buckles, strapping leather, and rivets. Will dye and assemble the whole rig after 1st shift job today, then get to work on the helms.

Who needs to sleep when there's armor that can be made!
my motto:

[Aegis]

I wont be at Geddon unfortunately.

I should be at Equinox and Wintersnight and potentially Yule as well.

[Enderonimus]

No problem, Age. I'm pushing it to finish as is. I can always use UPS for armor, or just wait till Equinox, which I'm also going to, to sell gear there.
BTW, like the new avatar. See ya soon!

[Enderonimus]

Well, smal update here before I leave for Armegeddon.
Got the whole thing dyed, turns out olive-drab green is a lot harder to make than I imagined! I'll post tomorrow the progress I have so far, just need to edge in black and then strapping and assembly.

[Soong]

Oooo. Let me know what you discover with the OD green. Maybe post yur mix ratios?


Everything is looking tip top so far man, can't wait to see the finished product.
Think we will see it live at EQ? or is your customer going?

[Solusar]

Enderonimus, that is freaking awesome.

Also, can't wait to kill Zurokk while he's wearing that.

[Elohssa Y'trid]

I believe Zurokk is planning on attending EQ, Soong.

Solusar, killing him with or without the harness should be easy

[Soong]

Ender, what do you cut your leather with? Those edges look so clean.

[Aegis]

i use a razor blade then use a leather edging tool
makes it look right sexy.

[Zurokk]

Dear god ....its...its...beautiful......yea, i'm gonna wet my pants when i put that on for the first time...cant wait.

[Enderonimus]

Hey guys, real quick post here. As you guys probably guessed, did not get a chance to make it out to Armageddon this weekend. Baby got sick at the last minute, and I wasn't feeling all too well myself,(think I worked myself too had last week!), and couldn't really justify myself being 4 hours away with all that. Sorry guys, I really hope to make it to EQ in September, which should give me plenty of time to make plans and gather stock for sale. Sorry again, guys.
As far as this project goes, its progressing real well, got it all painted and edged, going to reassemble and prestrap here next and post some new photos. Looking real good and I'm real excited about it!
making this colo, olive drab green:

is really more difficult than it would appear. I'll post later my mixtures and trial pieces and tips on mixing dyes. (my wife wants to kill me, I dyed a big portion of our kitchen table olive drab green!)
Post more after work today. Thanks for all the encouagement and enthusiasm!

[Aegis]

make a leather topper for your table, tool the crap outta it, make it really ornate, itll look wicked sweet and she will forget all about paint underneath...

or just sand it and restain it.

[Enderonimus]

Yeh, I'm definetely in the doghouse for the whole table thing, but I like the whole tooled leather cover idea, Age. Give me an excuse to practice more on the tooling!
Well, only had time to strap the vambrace last night after work, but I hope to get all the rest strapped and ready tonight after shift. Here are some photos so far, showing the dye and articualtion of the new shoulder. I still have to sheen the whole piece, but that's the last step.






Looking good and I'm really proud of the piece so far. Probably going to work the whole patterns into the regula production line.

Ender, what do you cut your leather with? Those edges look so clean.

I actually use a pair of shears I bought from Home depot, runs $13.99.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... reNum=8125
Cut real well but sometimes need to soak the leather in water to soften it a bit to help.

More pics for you guys soon! Hope to have it all done and in Zurokk's hands by end of the week!
Thanks for all the support and encouragement again, guys!

On a side note, you still fighting out of Oxford, Solusar?Round Miami University? If so, you're only like a half-hour from me! Might want to stop down one day for a good spa!

[Zurokk]

i cant wait to pics of that bad boy fully put together... it looks great so far.

[Enderonimus]

Updated pics. Harness almost completed. Should have done in the next day or 2. I know noone really uses these boards anymore, but until I get the hang of the new boards, I'm gonna stick with this one.







Have it done real soon! Thanks!

[Soong]

*! Looks amazing! That, my friend, is professional looking work.
Gratz on such an awesome peice.
So, about that color mixture...

[Ezekiel]

wow, how do I get a piece of armor made man, thats just freakin awsome

[Enderonimus]

Thanks guys. Yeh, I'm really liking how its turning out so far. Been really debating about the hault gaurds. According to the rules, can't have any protrusions more than 1/2 inch, and that, I feel, won't even look nice or near to what i had in mind. So, I have an alternative. Went to the surplus store in my neighborhood and bought some olive drab tape. I'm going to use that and black cloth tape to make the large, full-size hault gaurds out of foam. They'll be very soft and safe, but maintain that nice "monstrous" shape I'm going for here. Something similar to a shark or sea serpent dorsal fin. It will be easily removed, however, if it's not well recieved.
All in all, should have the piece done here real soon, want to get all the final update before this board closes. I'm also going to buy a website of my own before the month's out, something simple where I can post pieces that are being made, commssions, and events where I will be selling. I still fully plan on participating in the new boards, just will take me a while to get used to them. (Hard to teach an old dog new tricks!)
As far as future commissions go, I will have an updated itinerary posted with slots open and contact information.
And I will post my color combinations at the close of this thread, don't worry!

[Enderonimus]

Ok, second to last post here in this thread. Piece very near completion, just need 6 copper rivets on arm harness articulation straps and then finish the hault gaurd. Tested the piece out myself for a few hours yesterday, to see how the pattern fit and moved. walked around the whole house with the full arm on, holding the baby and feeding her (accompanied with some very odd looks from her! ), but all in all, armor feels very comfortable to wear. Takes some getting used to, it is ,after all, a hardened curbolli full arm harness. The way I made it would make it even suitable for SCA combat, if I used an ounce or more on the leather. Should have the piece polished and ready very soon. Next post will have the finale, with color progress and ready piece. I'm also going to conclude this board with some photos of me in my fighting armor, as many of you guys have asked to see in the P.M.'s
How it looks so far:

[Enderonimus]

Well, all is completed. Arm is done and fully assembled. Turned out really nice, I feel. Did end up doing the hault gaurd in foam, didn't want to cheapen out and comprimise for a very small leather one. All in all, looks good. I'm going to include the pattern and some spare rivets for Zurokk so if he wants or needs, he can repair or replace in the future. Fits real nice, if a bit long on me, (Zurokk's arms are about 2 inches longer than mine,) so should fit him perfect. Just pad the inside to get that snug, comfortable fit and should work out real nice. All in all, been a real fun experience and a valuable learning one at that!
So, without further ado, I present to you: THE ARM OF ZUROKK
















Here is the pattern for the Hault Gaurdes




And, as promised, the color mixture. Did a whole lot of testing, and really accidentally stumbled upon it.
Olive drab green = 3 parts tan dye + 1 part green dye. Ex: to get 4 ounces of olive drab, 3 ounces of tan + 1 ounce of green. Make sure you blend thorough and make enough for your entire piece, as it's hard to exactly match each time.

Good luck everyone in all your projects and hope to see you on the new board and the field of battle!