arm swords?

[ccjeff]

okay so i want to use an idea like this. would it be allowed? im asking for both rule wise and practicality thinking. like shorter blade maybe for more maneuvarability and more of a curving blade cause i want to slash with it and im afraid if i use it for a stab itll count as a punching weapon, any thoughts are welcome.

[Soo Ma Tai]

Basically, No. Here's why.

First off...it's a punching weapon if you try to stab, so no on that end.

Secondly, the blade part that goes across the arm, if i strike that you have to take the hit, otherwise it's anvilling.

3. Slashing doesn't count with us, you have to strike a solid blow to deal damage.

So, in short. Make a regular sword, learn to fight with it. I know those look cool, and you may only want them for cool factor, but they will in no way help your fighting ability.

[Solusar]

Make it, PD it, and flurb with it. But you can't use it on the field.

[Forkbeard]

I'm trying to be nicer, so I'm resisting...
It is very hard, though.
FB

[Soo Ma Tai]

*waves hands about wildly*

No worries FB, I GOT THIS!

[ccjeff]

i was going more for a practical factor because i take martial arts and i fight with a lot of punches that hook and a blade on the end would make it a slashing weapon. and i was looking in the rules and slashing weapons are allowed...

[Soo Ma Tai]

Yes, the rules state hacking/slashing. But if you read on you'll find it talks about what constitutes a hit. A hit requires solid contact and sufficient force. Sufficient force does not come from slashing moves...i.e. placing your blade against me and pulling it to make a cut.

I understand where you are coming from, I have a big MA background as well. I can tell you straight up that the only thing you'll be able to transfer straight over is you knowledge of footwork and stance. Everyting else has to be modified to fit the rules of this game.

I am telling you straight out, those weapons will not pass our weapons checks. I have been at this for 17 years, and i can tell you honestly, grab a sword, or two, or maybe a shield, and just go fight. Think abuot what you did out there, and why you were killed and improve on it the next time.

What MA/MA's do you study?An answer to that can actually help me help you.

[ccjeff]

i take tae kwon do but im not very big so i use a lot of spins and the like to get in close and i was thinking to apply it in this by like spinning around a blade to come around and slash with the blades without having a cumbersome sword to hold.

[Forkbeard]

Swords stop being cumbersome when you actual learn how to fight. You will get used to weilding weapons quickly.
Those arm sword-things would be completely useless in real life against a normal sword. They would be completely useless in our game as well. They are illegal on several different points. Stop it.
They aren't going to ever be legal.
I can see that you have built up some scenarios in your mind where they would be the most kick * thing YOU can imagine. You be be happier, faster and learn more if you concentrate your efforts on learning swordplay instead of trying to imagine super ninja tricks.
Belegarth combat has been around for decades. The fighters have seen pretty much every martial art attempted in pretty much every combo. Soo Ma Tai is absolutley right in that only footwork and position transfer. Your spinny nonsense moves are going to get you killed like a chump.


*, I tried to hold it in.
FB

[Tobia Blackthorn]

Your spinny nonsense moves are going to get you killed like a chump.

He's right about that. One guy on our field always tries some spinning dodge, complete with a bit of a duck. He gets killed every time by one shot to the back. Listen to Forkbeard, he may come off harsh, but he's completely right.

[No'Vak]

In fair defense of the spin move, it was a big thing a while ago. I've seen some people pull off pretty awesome "spin moves".

[ccjeff]

hey man listen. dont flip $#!t on me just cause of the way i fight. its how i fight and it works for me. forkbeard i understand where youre coming from but dont be an * about it. and soo ma tai i thank you for offering me advice in rather helpful and respectful manner. fb i understand that youve been doing this for awhile but ive also been fighting for awhile and im still learning but im "set in my ways" and i dont wish to change my fighting style too much. i thank you all for the help on some level or another and any other suggestions with an ounce of respect to them will be looked at with much enjoyment i must say.

[Tiberius Claudius]

ccjeff,

word of advice.

On these boards, if the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, ignore it. This is a pretty harsh board and it doesn't pay to swim against the current. Just let it roll off your back like water off a duck.

[ccjeff]

i typically do. but this was rather unwarranted and if forkbeard doesnt appreciate it then let him say something about it and not proxy it off to someone else. (no offense to you tiberius, im just saying is all)

[No'Vak]

Please don't try to bypass the profanity filter. You can turn it off in the UCP (user control panel) if you want to see the curses. Some people don't and that's why the **** is there.

[Illano]

oh i didn't know you could turn it off lol
fb isn't trying to be rude, it comes naturally to him, he doesn't come with a translator
we have a lot of people up here that get frustrated with the no slicing, particularly people with MA history
some find it helpful to imagine that we have extremely dull blades that we have to bludgeon with
even stabbing needs some punch to it, where normally you could slowly push it into someone(i'm not 100% if this is the rule but that's how we interpret it up here)

[Tiberius Claudius]

Unwarranted or not, its his style. When one sees the same suggestions over and over again,one loses patience for bad ideas. And he didn't proxy it off to me, he's plenty able and willing to let you know what he thinks of your posts.

I'm just offering a word of advice so that you know you should just close your mouth before the **** storm gets unleashed. And before you say you "can take it" (which I don't doubt), to stand up to it is like * in the wind.

Lurking a bit will allow you to learn the personalities of the folks on the boards and how they'll respond to you before you become upset at their responses to you.

Have fun and welcome to the game.

[ccjeff]

ill admit im upset. but more about him dissing what i do more than about me myself. and yes i can take it and yes i already have been lurking. im just letting him know that i can dish it just as easily as i can take it.

[ccjeff]

oh and i tend to thrive off of swimming against the current as you said earlier.

[Big King Jimmy]

Welcome to the jungle. With an attitude like that the boards are going to skull **** you.

[Mint]

Sighhhhhh....

Via con Dios, kiddo.

[Peanut of Loderia]

Let me try to sum up what they're saying by drawing an analogy:

You study Taek Won Do. You've been doing it for awhile. Let say five years. One day a guy walks in and asks a question about why you do something a certain way: Be it your forms or structure. You explain calmly. He asks about a point. You explain again. He then says he does this other martial art and that's how he's used to doing it. You probably tell him well that's that and this is this so there's differences. He continues wanting to do it. You advise him to hang around and watch to get the feel for things. He says he's been watching Taek Won Do videos online and been on forums. He then starts challenging talking to you like he's been doing it for ten years, very superior.

How would you react?

[Blackhawk]

Make a regular sword and hold it like this, swing it around, fight someone.
Then tie it to your arm like this:

Swing it around, fight someone. Then untie it and realize that tying a sword to your arm is stupid. Anyone in martial arts will tell you the same thing.

[Tiberius Claudius]

50 points to BH.

[Magpie Saegar]

I say you tie one to each wrist -- then get shield bashed a few times. I've said this in previous threads -- I really just want to see people fall on their faces without the ability to catch themselves or get up. I'm not usually a mean person...

[duckymcfeelgood]

to quote the prophet forkbeard....

"When new people demand that I explain the weird parts of our rules and they do not like my answers, I just tell them that the majority of the smart people in this sport said so, that's why. Shut up and fight."

amen

[Forkbeard]

I did not, at any point, disrespect Tea Kwon Do(sp?). It is a fine martial art, if your into that kind of stuff.
I said it is pretty much worthless in a belegarth fight. Because it IS. This is not a real fight. You can not do 90% of the thing you do to people in any martial art, because you are NOT trying to kill OR hurt them, just tag them real hard with your stick.
If you feel that your"fighting style" is so awesome, by all mean, go out and fight some Belegarth people. You will se what I mean imediatly. You probly wont admit it for a few years, if you ego can take getting beaten for long enough to swallow your pride and learn.
I offended you, good. You came in here and asked a question you knew the answer to: can I use these arm sword, even through I already checked and they are illegal? You got your answer, **** NO.
Then you went on to explain why YOU should eb the one exception to our rules, because you think you are some kind of Tea kwon douche expert and the rules should not apply to you. **** you, they aply to everyone. Arm sword are punch weapons and you are an idiot.
You got your nice answer, and then proceded to argue, like a little *. That's where I come in, *.
If you don't like the way I talk, come to Chaos War and stop me.
FB

[Embara Cayosin]

FB

[Ignatius]

*Poot sound from mouth*

[Dabbanoth]

I took Tae Kwon Do in middle school, everybody. I'M gonna use some GD ARMSWORDS. Watch the **** out! I cant believe no one has thought of this before.

[Cheeseheart]

Let's move it to General Mayhem where we can have some real fun with this!
This is exactly what I need during finals week!
Welcome to the wonderful world of Belegarth....Boards kiddo!

[Teej]

i take tae kwon do

Not gonna (directly) help you with swords. I took TKD for 11 years, it's great cardio and makes you a hell of a kicker; that’s... about... it. You know... it's pretty much worthless in these MMA days too, unless you're mixing it with something else just like every other would-be UFC champion.

Not ragging on TKD, probably the MA I've enjoyed the most - the others being Aikido, Krav Maga, MCMAP; honestly, I enjoy the traditional ambiance more, I think a lot is lost in MMA these days... Pretty much the same reason I don’t want to see foam-combat go mainstream. Sponsorships, money, animosity… it ruins the spirit of the sport IMO.

ive also been fighting for awhile and im still learning but im "set in my ways" and i dont wish to change my fighting style too much

Fighting what for a while? TKD or Belegarth? Or something you THINK is Belegarth? Either way... if you don't wish to change your style too much, I hate to say it, but you're never going to get anywhere. Whether you're new to the Belegarth scene or you have been doing legit Belegarth for a while. When people peak, they find a new weapon...

Oh, and if you have a bright idea... SURE! Run it by us! Consider the fact that someone in our 30 year history has probably thought of it too though - and don't be argumentative when someone with over a decade of experience takes the time to answer you.

Lurk the forums more, pick up a regular sword and learn to fight with that first - Welcome to Belegarth, remember what I said here and you'll do fine.

[ccjeff]

alright well thank you. and forkbeard i can only ask forgiveness. youre probably very right its just i was trying to incoroporate my already learned fighting style in and im sorry i called you an *. ill get over it. any suggestions for somebody who is about 5' 9" and only weighs about 140 so i dont get my * creamed out there? i would rather not use a shield if possible and am more a two weapon kind of guy. any suggestions would be helpful and i again seek forgiveness from the board.

[No'Vak]

It never hurts to learn to use a shield even if you want to be a two sword fighter. One of the best ways to learn how to fight a weapon set is to learn to fight with that weapon set.

[Tobia Blackthorn]

Funny thing is, everyone who've I've seen initially say "I don't want to use a shield" alway end up changing their mind once they actually use one.

Spear's alway fun if you work with some other guys. I've not really moved from Sword and Board though, so not much help.

[The Bruce]

I agree with Luinmir- try spear. You get reach and, being small, you'll easily hide behind the line tanks and be a pesky nuisance.

[ccjeff]

i was actually looking at a short glaive. like the minimum length so i could more be up close but still hide behind the line. even if it meant survival in game im just not the type to stay five feet back from the fitghting is all. but thanks for the advice. and i have another question if anybodys willing to answer.

[Forkbeard]

I feel like I fighting in the most realistic and traditional manner with a spear, though spear is tough and hard to be happy with.
Fighting with two swords is also a great way to enjoy this game. if you smaller and dodgy, it's a great wat to go. I suggest a small, all foam buckler, for blocking arrows.
Get on the fighting skill forum and ask about dual weilding. seach and read first, though.
FB

[Tiberius Claudius]

and Fork beat me to it.......

I think it is critically important for new fighters to start with the basic Sword & Board because you learn the utmost fundamental mechanics of the game that way. If you're serious about the game and analyze your/the enemy's actions and successes/failures, or even if you're not too serious about it and simply pick up some muscle memory without really understanding why, S&B will give you the most well-rounded insights to fighting Belegarth.

Most fighters on any given field are sword and boarders. Learning to fight as one will help you to survive on the field - both against S&B and other kits. Fighting with a shield gives you good defense and survivability to make up for your newness. You can block arrows and javelins, you can soak up a red hit as you charge in to kill the wielder, you can use it to bash an enemy and knock him down, or you can use it to edge an enemy and knock the wind out of him or jam his shield/weapon against his body so he can't use it. Not only do you learn how to fight against other people, but you also learn how they fight against you.

See the benefits when you eventually transition into a different weapon like a spear or a glaive? Knowing how they're (the majority of fighters on any given field) going to block/take your shots (from your intimate knowledge of being a S&Ber) is going to make you throw your shots differently.

If you have the desire to get better, as you progress you'll learn to use footwork so that you both evade shots rather than soak them up and so that you can position yourself to control the enemy's defense and deliver shots. All of this stems from using a shield correctly.

Pick up S&B for at least 6 months of serious practice and skill development. Most folks will rightly advise a year. Go to events and spar with everyone you can. Be polite and learn from the vets and analyze your experiences. Once you've got a decent amount of experience in large battles and can hold your own about 50% of the time with your peers, then consider trading up for a more specialized weapon.

And, as Fork has said in other threads, practice spear to get good at glaive. Any monkey can swing the thing around and break shields, but it takes skill to poke through small openings and take limbs / get kills. Developing that skill will vastly increase your glaive fighting ability and will also preserve your glaive for use at events so that you're not breaking it down on the local guys.

- TCM

[Illano]

Fighting with two swords is also a great way to enjoy this game. if you smaller and dodgy, it's a great wat to go. I suggest a small, all foam buckler, for blocking arrows.

arrows are my bane, i only get to practice against them at events
two swords wrecks without them to worry about
using a shield to start is a good idea, it's mandatory in the SCA

[ccjeff]

alright and my other question was about grapples. like what exactly constitutes a grapple?

[Caleidah]

Taking control (or attempting to take control) of your target's movement. If you're grabbing for someone, it's a grapple. Rules are the same as HS wrestling. No strikes, no joint locks, no bars. If at any point you grab the striking portion of their weapon while they are in control of it, you lose the limb.

Tiberius, you write out some of the most legitimately informative posts I've ever read on this board.

[Big King Jimmy]

alright and my other question was about grapples. like what exactly constitutes a grapple?

Remember that in grappling, you're taking the focus away from killing your opponent (to grapple them) while getting inside their range. 99 times out of 100 this means you die. You're busy grabbing them while they pound the dog * out of you with foam.

A lot of what it seems you want to do involves a lot of finesse and quick movement, moving so quickly your opponent doesn't have time to react. There's just one problem, I've met maybe 10 people in Belegarth that fast. And they've trained at it, HARD.

You sound like the kid whose just got back from his first practice and wants to know everything about it so he can be an expert at it before he actually does it. Step 1: Learn humility. If you really take to heart the idea that you know nothing, and have no opinion, people will teach you A LOT when you ask a question. Step 2: Actually listen. People have been doing this a long time. They didn't get that good by giving everyone else bad advice and looking awesome. Most foam fighters try to give good honest advice. Step 3: Start with the basics. Good sword and board keeps you alive. When you're alive, you're having fun. Dying sucks. Focus on staying alive while you really focus on understanding the game.

[Tordek]

also, since there are no throws/locks etc in our grappling rules, your going to get absolutely creamed at 5'9" and 140 lbs trying to take someone on in what amounts to a straight contest of physical strength.

second thing, just start off single blue, probably about 30% of your fighting career in this sport will be with single blue unless you do a great job of protecting your arms. know it, learn it, love it.

once you have built an understanding of how the game mechanics work and have developed your main arm is when most fighters choose either Florentine or S&B (at least in my realm, although a lot have been going straight Florentine recently) We make anyone on our field that is a new(er) train with the Master of the Red to learn safe technique and then they have to be passed off for use. An errant shot to the head with a blue is a concussion, with a red it can be a snapped neck.

Lastly, for a beat down rant, that has got to be one of the more restrained works of literature by FB (which I might say, well done good sir). He has just seen so many of you guys come and go wanting to be the next greatest weapons designer/fighter/etc. All of the rules we have are for safety reasons, once your around for a while and look back on this you will realize why it is that way.

[Forkbeard]

You see, Jeffy, when you are humble and respectful, your questions get rich and involoved answers from intelegent and well spoken members of our comunity.
When you are impatient and disrepectful, you get me, doing my sweary, yelly thing.
We all want to help each new fighter become comfortable and feel included in our comunity. We all(well most of us) want nothing more than to help new people learn to fight. It is in our best interest to have as many good fighters on our fields as possible.
Welcome to the jungle.
FB

[ccjeff]

what i was asking about grappling is like am i adle to tackle somebody from behind or is it only from the front? cause i was looking in the rules and they are very vague as to what constitutes a grapple and a shield kick and some other stuff too. and thanks forkbeard. youve helped me a lot in this. thanks man

[Phoxly]

I don't think tackling anyone from behind is a good idea, sounds like a good way to mess up someone's back for no apparent reason. Why would you initiate grapple from behind when you easily have a shot at their back? Is there a scenario you can imagine where this would be viable?

[ccjeff]

valid point. i was just reading the rules and was a little confused as to what a grapple is.

[Forkbeard]

I see grapling most often when people are using long weapons. You wait until the extend their reach, dodge past the striking surface and grab their weapon and them their person, restraining them while one of your freinds kills them.
Really thats all you can do: hold someone while one of your freinds stabs them(hopefully without stabbing you as well).
Other instances come up, but this is the most common for me.
Grapling and shield bashing and shield kicks are not that effective, but they are very valuable to our kind of fighting, when some one can grab and hold you, or kick your shidl hard enough to knock you down, or they can simply smash you to the ground with their shiled, it effects the way you aproach people in combat. It changes the way you stand, how you plan out moving through a crowd, everything.
Basicly it's why I hate playing any other game but Bel and Dag. When I can't smash, kick and manhandle people, I'm not having fun.
FB

[ccjeff]

ok now this is probably a little out there. but like a grapple and then pull out a dagger? like a grab someone or knock them to the ground and then stab them. how effective is that do you think?