Belegarth

I am currently attending Cornish College of the arts, at which I plan to start a Belegarth Student Interest Group (or SIG, for short).

I have more than enough signatures to begin this group and receive $400 funding for equipment etc. There are 24 individuals who have signed up who would like to see the idea of this group become a reality.

My first obstacle in creating this SIG is requesting money in order to purchase materials to make weapons, garb, and armor with.

I was hoping that my fellow Belegrim could help name good materials to buy in bulk. I would like to have a list of materials I need for the items mentioned above. As well, it would be helpful if I could get suggestions on the amounts of different weapons and fabric I should purchase for a good even spread for approximately 25 people.

Here are a few questions I have to spur the suggestions:
- What materials should I purchase for shield cores?
- What sort of core should I purchase for basic weapons (red, blue and green)?
- Where would I purchase these things in bulk, for cheap?
- Where is a good website to purchase leather from?



And so on. I appreciate any and all suggestions on how to go about this. I think downtown Seattle could use an easy-access Belegarth realm.

depending on the University, they may have safety concerns (ours did). Because of that we bought pre-made weapons for most of the gear and used Edhellen fries for the swords.

I can give you more info on that if your university has the same beef about people hitting each other.

Armor really isn't necessary for start up. (And tools/materials would cost like half of your funding). I'd leave that to individuals if they really want armor.

For blues, 12 round fiberglass should do.
Greens depends on length. Bandshop poles would probably be best for spears. If it's just a stabby sword, 1/2in fiberglass should do.

Reds also depend on length. Glaives go with bandshop poles. Min reds: I hear 1/2 square fiberglass works but is hard to find. In between you'll have to ask someone else.

Shield cores depend on preference. For bulk, I'd suggest plywood. It's fairly cheap, durable, and you can get a lot of shields from a 4x8 sheet.

Fratari wrote:Armor really isn't necessary for start up. (And tools/materials would cost like half of your funding). I'd leave that to individuals if they really want armor.

For blues, 12 round fiberglass should do.
Greens depends on length. Bandshop poles would probably be best for spears. If it's just a stabby sword, 1/2in fiberglass should do.

Reds also depend on length. Glaives go with bandshop poles. Min reds: I hear 1/2 square fiberglass works but is hard to find. In between you'll have to ask someone else.

Shield cores depend on preference. For bulk, I'd suggest plywood. It's fairly cheap, durable, and you can get a lot of shields from a 4x8 sheet.

Awesome. Thanks for the input. This is super helpful.

The reason I bring up the armor is because I'm at an art school, and I know that there are plenty of sculptors who would love to do some leatherworking. I'm pretty positive that the school would have some of the tools needed to make some cool armor. However, leaving armor up to the students who would really want it would be fine too.

Rocca wrote:depending on the University, they may have safety concerns (ours did). Because of that we bought pre-made weapons for most of the gear and used Edhellen fries for the swords.

I can give you more info on that if your university has the same beef about people hitting each other.

I know the paperwork for creating a SIG mentions that no group should have issues in terms of legal liability in a medical or safety sense... However, the way I view it is that it would be no different than starting a rugby group.

That being said, I would greatly appreciate the extra information, just in the case that I might struggle with creating this group through the school.

We used the sports angle too to become a club. That's actually what made us get "official" weapons. The school wasn't comfortable with a sport using substandard equipment. I mean, if the club lacrosse team didn't have pads or real sticks that would be a problem. They felt the same way about us.

I wouldn't bring up "professional" equipment unless they are resistant to accepting you guys because of a "safety" reason. But if they do have resistance due to safety, you can use that argument and feel free to site the University of Oregon's Belegarth Realm (Tir na nOg). We got over $3,000 for weapons, so the school went all in behind us being a club.

Jevins wrote:
Here are a few questions I have to spur the suggestions:
- What materials should I purchase for shield cores?
- What sort of core should I purchase for basic weapons (red, blue and green)?

I have to concur that if you can receive funding from the school for equipment that buying swords from Edhellen would probably be your best bet, though not really the most cost effective. If you choose to build weapons yourself, 1/2" round fiberglass is indeed the way to go, and get your hands on some 2# polyethylene for building blades; if you're competent enough at building, slapping down some 4# poly for the box layer would be super effective. Check the foamsmithing board for info on where to procure these materials.

On that note, I would recommend that you limit your group weaponry to blue swords and standard round shields. Face it: new people are hard on equipment. Blue swords are probably the best thing to learn with and, excluding bats, are probably going to be hardest for your newbs to break. Round shields can be made cost effectively from 1/2" CDX plywood and ozark trail blue foam, and they can stand just about anything, and allow your newbies to learn foot work and defense at the same time. Otherwise, I would save building more advanced weaponry for individual members, or at least put a limit on who can use a group red weapon or spear, as they are more expensive and more dangerous to build/use.

My 2c. Hope that helps.

Thurat wrote:On that note, I would recommend that you limit your group weaponry to blue swords and standard round shields.

Contrary to Thurat,in our experience, having the diversity of weapons greatly helped out recruitment. People see spears and reds and flails and bows etc. and they want in on it. Now, again, we managed to get a lot of money, so our first priority was shields and swords, but if you are able getting a variety is helpful, especially on a college campus with so many walk-ons.

How did you get funding and your group to start up and get approved? My campus says bel is a liability. Could you help me, i'm starting a new realm as well. Thankyou!

you can contact me easier at wolff079@yahoo.com or 619-405-8702

Our realm is also an official school club as well. In fact, right now we're in the middle of revamping our constitution and bylaws to include a policy regarding use of anything other than basic clue weapons (i.e. flails, reds, & poles). If you have loaner gear that's anything other than basic blue n' board, I strongly suggest coming up with some sort of training/certification. Newfolk have a tendency to reach for the biggest freakin' weapon they see, and if they're reckless with it, could potentially bash someone's head in. You may want to be sure they know how to use it safely if you have that kinda stuff available.

PM Summit (our realm leader & club president) if you want more info about funding/club bylaws.

tartarus - To convince them we were not a liability we compared ourselves to other student groups/clubs. For example, U of O has a competitive Jujitsu club that goes to competitions - they get funding, and occasionally people get hurt. U of O also has field hockey, lacrosse, flag-football, etc. as club sports. These sports always have a few injuries a season. We then told them our record for injuries - in order to become a club at the U of O you have to have been active ON CAMPUS for at least 6 months. So, during that period, we kept track of injuries: one broken pinky toe.

Combined with the track record and the comparison to other university clubs, we also emphasized the safety precautions we build into our weapons and in the rules. This is things like emphasizing that while, in football, players pad their bodies, we pad our weapons. emphasizing the no head shots rule. And the weapons checks (for us) every other practice (not that hard, you just show up early and go through the realm gear).

To get the large amount of money we got we pushed the safety and play-ability factor of having weapons - we COULD have asked for just the money to build the weapons on our own, but since we were pushing safety (and at the time did not have many foam smiths) and the university would OWN the weapons, we asked for money for "professional" edhellen weapons. We also brought weapons with us to our hearing (a public student senate meeting) and passed them around to the senators - we encouraged them to hit each other with them to see the impact.

........yeah, thats pretty much how we got around the safety thing. Also, unlike other boffer groups that tried in the past, we acknowledged that it can cause injuries. If you run around saying that it is perfectly safe they will know you are lying, just be honest and have the right attitude. Oh, and make sure you have WAIVERS, even before you are a club, that exempt the University from damages.

Mint wrote:Our realm is also an official school club as well. In fact, right now we're in the middle of revamping our constitution and bylaws to include a policy regarding use of anything other than basic clue weapons (i.e. flails, reds, & poles). If you have loaner gear that's anything other than basic blue n' board, I strongly suggest coming up with some sort of training/certification. Newfolk have a tendency to reach for the biggest freakin' weapon they see, and if they're reckless with it, could potentially bash someone's head in. You may want to be sure they know how to use it safely if you have that kinda stuff available.

PM Summit (our realm leader & club president) if you want more info about funding/club bylaws.

In addition to what Mint has recommended, when designing your policy make sure to talk with your harassment/hazing spokesperson on campus before you implement any training policy. Universities like seeing proactive steps taken when forming organizations. When starting out, focus on addressing those safety concerns by mentioning that your budgeted funds will be spent on professionally made standardized equipment.

Come prepared with an explanation of the rules. The Sand Plains uses a point system explanation to allow for the university to understand and come to terms with how the game is played. Phrasing things in a matter that brings Belegarth into their terminology makes Universities more willing to cooperate.

(Receiving 2 points leads to death. 1 point for limbs, 2 points for torso ext.)

If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I am one of the three founders for the Sand Plains Militia. I am fairly competent at navigating University bureaucracies. I'm sure that I can help you phrase or explain things in ways that will benefit your organization the most.

It would be nice to see a Seattle Bel group. Even with two bridges people have an aversion to going to the Eastside (and vice versa).

For local materials:
Foam: blue camp pad; Walmart
Glue: DAP; Walmart
Cores: 1/2" fiberglass; probably TAP plastics. There is a location near Seattle Center, as well as one in Bellevue. (When you eventually need kitespar for something, they also carry that.)
Cover fabric: probably a bottom-weight fabric; there are a couple of Joann Fabrics in north Seattle, as well as one in Bellevue. They frequently have sales; for example they have a 40% coupon good for the next week right now.
Tape: Big 5 sells long rolls of hockey tape for $4.

I assume you probably have access to a car, but if you don't I can probably come into the city and drive you guys around for supplies. Contact me on FB if you need me to.


Added:
Cores: for spears and polearms 1-2-3 Music appears to be the best deal. They have free shipping, no miniumum order, and don't charge extra to ship the 8' poles.
Leather: we have both a Tandy leather and a Mac Pherson leather in Seattle. Tandy is way north Seattle, and Mac Pherson is off of Rainer (so close to you).

Rocca wrote:The school wasn't comfortable with a sport using substandard equipment. I mean, if the club lacrosse team didn't have pads or real sticks that would be a problem. They felt the same way about us. .

Your school did more investigating then ours did. The obstacle for us was getting the hanger/gym for indoor use and funding for equipment. No one bothered to check into the quality of our weapons or equipment (a lot of it is home made..safe..but homemade)

We we are able to get the green light by appealing to the school clubs dept. There are tons of unique clubs or groups that came before us so A medieval combat group wasn't seen as so strange. Due to the bylaws within the school we are given a grant each year to work with (only 200 dollars if I remember correctly..but it's a start)

Another group I would recommend talking to is Niflheim http://wiki.belegarth.com/Niflheim. They are somehow able to convince their school to fund entire trips to events, excuse them from classes and if I remember correctly even give them make dates for assignments.

We have a transplant to your area, Froste. I would contact him, as he is in the area and would surely help y'all get started. They do a Dargarth in his particular group, a combo of Darkon and Bel rules. Also you could try to contact Divit, or Valas on here, as they are running the university group at the local college here in Missoula.

i would highly recomend re-blades. google for more info

I don't mean to res this thread from the grave but, I figured it was better then starting a new topic on the same thing. I was wondering from those of you that have clubs on campuses if there is any other bits of advice that was left out that might be helpful. My realm is looking to insted of opening new realms just extend out by starting clubs on our local junior collages and at our universities. Any tips would be awesome we are just in the planning stages as of now.

There are a number or realms that have the set up you are describing. The ones that I know of have the college part of the realm be a "unit" for the realm. When getting funding for the non-college portion of the group, it is better for the students to say they are funding their unit, which may go towards to overall realm, then to say that they are directly funding non-student events.

Hope that helps!

Bakdar and Shino know a little more about satellite college clubs as part of a realm: They were involved with the Central Oregon Community College/OSU Cascade Campus club which is part of Babylon. You might want to pm them too.

I've gotten college groups started at CSI in Twin and BSU in Boise. You can contact me if you have any questions Jevins.

Also, Rocca is right about schools wanting their groups to use "official" or "professional" equipment. Edhellen has a "realm Startup package" that you can order at a discount that gives you a lot of what you need to get a group started.

Ill be heading off to college next year and thought of the idea of starting up a...well currently im involved with a Dagorhir group, Stormwrath,..so anyway i wanted to start a chapter up at the college i would be attending. Im just wondering what really entails heading up a Belegarth or Dagorhir group and how open are colleges really to this sort of thing?

It really depends on your college, but the first thing to look at is what TYPE of student organizations there are. At U of O for instance there are Club Sports and Student Associations. Both have their pros and cons and if you are going to spend your energy doing the paperwork etc. to start a group you need to know what type your group will fit best with. In our case, Club Sports was pretty strict as to the NO NON-STUDENT policy while Student Associations allowed non-students as long as the group was 80% students. So we went the Student Association route.

Also, if you can, ask some like minded people at your college about why there isn't already a group - sometime people have TRIED to form groups but have met resistance for some reason (violence concerns, non-students, lack of other regional college clubs, etc.). Knowing why a group had failed in the past can let you address these concerns for your group before they are brought up.

Lastly, HAVE WAIVERS THAT EXPLICITLY STATE YOUR UNIVERSITY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR INJURIES.

... thats the most off of the top of my head right now.... I'm sure we can answer any follow up questions you have/give you more info when other people chime in

Haha how would i create an official waiver? i have experience with that sort of thing?

Bori- If your school has a recreational sports or intramurals department, it's likely that they have a waiver done up for you already. At UWSP we have a "hold harmless" form.

It looks like this:
http://www.uwsp.edu/centers/Documents/centersForms/holdharmless.pdf

As far as allowing community members into the group, it's essentially a matter of how you word your charter/club constitution. We went the club sports route, as opposed to student org. We currently even have a non-student up for an honorary officer position.


Our campus is rediculously supportive of student interest groups, but even then there is plenty of red tape to go through in the form of meetings, paperwork, and required annual revenue (in our system this ammounts to a set percentage of our funding that we have to repay at the end of the year). This is pretty much continuous, even after you get a group going. Fortunately, it's not a ton of work-and if you have a motivated group of officers it shouldn't prove to be too much of a burden on any one person.

From there the best thing you can do is up your organizations involvement on campus and within the intramural sports department- volunteer to hold demos at involvement fairs and lock-in nights, etc. This will earn your grop some recognition as an active and involved part of the campus community- and DEFINATELY won't hurt your chances at securing more funding down the road.

In most cases that I've heard about, the recognition/re-recognition process for student orgs begins early on in the semester, and usually involves a checklist of forms/signatures that have to be completed and submitted by a certain date. My advice is to find freinds who have gone through the recognition/upkeep process for another similar rec-sport group at the campus you go to. Say, paintball. Talk to their leadership and see if you can't get some advice more specific to your school.

Can't think of anything else- Good luck!