The real story...

[Wisp]

Same goes if the two are grouped together and compared to Amtgard's melee fighting (whatever they call the version of their rules with the magic and character crap stripped away).

In the end we all (at least most of us) just want to hit people and have fun. Same applies even to Kegg, Dominus, Graymael, Madog, Erekose, or Bangor, Wisp, Spyn, and all the rest of us who dress up in odd clothing and hit each other with foam covered whatevers.

Amtgard's melee without the magic and character crap (and I agree... crap) is called Militia battles and is more or less the same as Bel or Dag.

I'd like to see a big ol' independent hosted event for every boffer game going. Now that would be fun. The melee rules are so similar between most every boffer game, it would be easy to do if stripped down to some real basics.

Will

[edgethrop]

i have heard that there have been lawsuits recently. any truth to this and if so dag is the one that needs to remove their head from their anal sphincter and realize we are the same. i have been in the game awhile and i figure that on our side of the house we dont care but on the other side its still taboo. it has been brought up in discussion htat if like maybe a half dozen ppl were to leave the game, the two groups could reunite under on banner and be happy with a few changes

[Big King Jimmy]

I keep hearing "We just want to hit people."

Awesome. Go do that, we're not stopping you by existing.

[Peregrine]

..but you guys seem to see bogey men in the closet that aren't there.

you mean Dominous right?

[Kyrax]

i have heard that there have been lawsuits recently.

Pure rumor. There haven't been any lawsuits. Not recently, not in the past, not ever. The only legal or official documents filed with anyone vis-a-vis the split have been challenges to the Dagorhir service mark filing (which were ruled against). Those went to the Patent and Trademark office, not a court and were filed on behalf of individuals who were or are involved in Belegarth (as individuals as far as I know).

[Kyrax]

I keep hearing "We just want to hit people."

Awesome. Go do that, we're not stopping you by existing.

And neither are they, so why the angst?

[Peregrine]

I think it's great that we can have this discussion, can we continue it on the Dag board?

[Physic]

I usually stay out of this stuff but I have the urge to tell my dealings with leadership of Dag. I hold no prejudice for any group and participate in all of the local fighting clubs that exist around me.

When the Peoria group started getting organized I found out that we had some Dagorhir members in the area that were coming to the practices. This was awesome for me because I already had a some people with a couple of years experience helping out. While I initially planned on just greating a Bel group I thought that it might be better if we just had an open group that promoted both games equally. During this time I was looking at the Dag boards and noticed there was another person from Peoria that was looking for a group to fight with. While not breaking any of the rules for the Dag board I mentioned that we were fighting in Peoria. I was quickly banned from the board for the reason that Im in a Belegarth unit. You can see it here...

http://www.dagorhir.com/cgi-bin/ultimat ... 1&t=001050

After this happened the local Dag fighters which consisted of a couple Fianna guys and a Senegals fighter decided to create a Dag Chapter. They filled out all requred paperwork and sent it in. In the end they were denied being able to create a chapter with no reason given as to why. They were ignored when they tried to inquire about the status of the chapter. Im going to assume that they were denied because they knew I lived there and was associating with them.


The thing that really disgusted me about Dominus is a situation that occured with one of his so called friends two years ago. He basicly told his "friend" that if he continued to post on the Belegarth boards they were going to ban him from Aratari practices. When you are letting the politics of a game overshadow a friendship you have had for years,over something so trivial, that to me makes you a bad human beihg.


Ninety Nine percent of of Dag I really like and think they are awesome people. Unfortunatly it is that one percent which happens to be the leadership of Dag that leaves a bad tast in my mouth.

[bangor]

Character crap? That's the best part!

[Sir Cairbre]

Reading this topic makes my blood boil. Kind of like when you watch zit-com and the kid really messes up and then you know they have to tell their parents that they knew better when they did but still slept with the 50 year old principle.

[Dacian]

You can see it here...

http://www.dagorhir.com/cgi-bin/ultimat ... 1&t=001050

After this happened the local Dag fighters which consisted of a couple Fianna guys and a Senegals fighter decided to create a Dag Chapter. They filled out all requred paperwork and sent it in. In the end they were denied being able to create a chapter with no reason given as to why. They were ignored when they tried to inquire about the status of the chapter. Im going to assume that they were denied because they knew I lived there and was associating with them.

wow...just....wow...that thread made me wanna bang my head against the computer desk...

wow...

[varadin]

i don't think i know of anyone who will defend domonius on the boards. He gets rather up on a high horse. Ive talked to the guy in person at rag and hes pleanty fine to me in person doubt he knows hes banned me 3 times off the board. I stay off it now other then to find pictures of pretty armor being made and photos from events.


Edgthrop the only legal fight i know that has happened was Pentwyvern was fighting for the name Dagorhir because we somehow had the first copyrighted thing with the word in one of our documents. Fey started in at the split and Sir Richter ended it during his kingship the year after.

Theres also something about talon being banned from aratari events because of his foamcombat.com or whatever but thats a whole different issue and i believe its been resolved.

[Peregrine]

if by settled, you mean had to close down and knuckle under because his Kids where banned as well then, yes it's settled .

[edgethrop]

I would love to see the two games come together. Ive been i n long enough to know the workins of both systems and hell some realms use a combo of both. just people need to have their head puled out of their * and sometimes people need to be told to do so. my question is is htere anybody on our side of teh house willin got let the past go.

[Jeggrim]

The whole deal is stupid if you ask me. Bel or Dag, its all the same. We dress up funney and hit eachother with sticks. I don't know a whole lot of Dag fighters personally, but I'm sure the vast majority of them are awesome peeps. To me it seems like Dag is waaaayyy too political, which is lame.

That thread where they banned Physic * me off. That doesn't even seem real to me. Troll? *?

Anyways, I had to laugh. I started trolling through their boards, and was looking at a thread about armor pics, and within like 8-9 pictures I saw 2-3 that I know are solely Bele fighters. Eat that.

Seriously though, if (never going to happen) we could find a massive middle ground, and re-join the groups, it would be better for everyone. The events would be better, the gear would get better, and the fighting would get better. The more people you have involved in something like this, the faster things like garb, armor, and foamsmithing evolve as you throw more and more minds at it. The fighting would also explode as more and more excellent fighters share their knowlege and skill with more and more people.

At the risk of sounding like a gay hippy, and to quote the onion movie "Increase the Peace."

My .02 right now.

--Jegg

[Kyrax]

Edgthrop the only legal fight i know that has happened was Pentwyvern was fighting for the name Dagorhir because we somehow had the first copyrighted thing with the word in one of our documents. Fey started in at the split and Sir Richter ended it during his kingship the year after.

That's pretty much what I was referring to about the filings with the Patent and Trademark office (not a lawsuit, but still official documents were filed).

And Angmarth, it appears that I was wrong about Madog. I wasn't aware of that.

[Angmarth]

The irony Kyrax, is that I really like Dominus. I fought with the Romans at my 1st and 2nd Ragnarok's (#13 & #14). I simply find it distasteful that it has come to this, petty bickering on a forum until one side says "I'm not going to let you play in my sandbox!". While I don't think a "reunification" is conceivable or even necessarily good for foam fighting, I do think that a compromise could be reached about setting aside differences in order to host the single most awesome sight foam fighting has ever seen. I want to see the "World Series of Foam Fighting", the "Big Foam Dance", "The Foam Championship", "The Thrilla' with Foamilla" or whatever you want to call it. We should have our own Foam Pennsic, it would just take a little cooperation.

[Forkbeard]

I'll co-operate, I swear!
FB

[edgethrop]

So there are plenty of neutral parties out there that are wiling to work on at aleast a cooperative event hosted by the two groups. we just need a mediator to sit down with both sides and work it out. it seems like the game sysytems are like religous war. all believe the same thing jus think their way is better.. hmm im in the middleaest cuz of this.. hmmm food for thought

[Kyrax]

I simply find it distasteful that it [came] to this, petty bickering [at events and on the] forum until [both sides said] "I'm not going to let you play in my sandbox!".

When edited, that's a good synopsis of the split.

I agree a big event would be fun. But Pennsic, despite the variety of participants, is an event run by one group and one group only, the SCA. You play by their rules only. Dagorhir would be happy for everyone (with those few exceptions) to come to Ragnarok and play by their rules, and to some extent we do.

[Forkbeard]

Also, every Bel event I've ever been to is open to everybody who has garb. You don't even need proper weapons(not that Dag people have bad weapons). We don't care whether you are into our game, Amtgard, or some gay duct tape weapon larp. We loan out weapons and let anyone who wants to fight.
Honestly, aside from location, this is why I started a Bel group in my town. The organisation give out there rules and stuff freeley to anyone who wants to fight. They required no signing if anything.
I thought that was cool.
FB

[Peregrine]

....Dagorhir would be happy for everyone (with those few exceptions) to come to Ragnarok and play by their rules, and to some extent we do.

so in other words same old same old.

[Sorcia]

I keep hearing people say that reunification would be possible if both sides would just cooperate. This is only possible if we use this board and word of mouth to do it which will only cause more problems for existing groups who came here to discuss it.

Just how did Dominous know that Physic was in a Belegarth unit? He has sources and probably even comes here from time to time to see what is going on. And before someone starts saying that I am paranoid and such, I have no problems with it. In fact there has been an olive branch laid on the table for a long time here. I do not ever want people to quit foam fighting because of the split. I hope that people are having fun.

BTW, Kyrax has been in the toughest spot of anyone I think and major props for sticking to your guns and saying the exact same things you have said for the last 8 years. You have not waivered from your position on Dag and Bel and it shows to your good character. Pass on the message of peace from myself to the higher-us in Dag.

Now I sound like a hippy.

[warwell]

I crafted a detailed response to Ryker, but really the argument is fruitless. If some groups want to be politically independent they have they have the right to play the game without signing a contract. If a group is comfortable with the contract and want to be Dag, they have that right, too. As long as each is willing to play nice together, why does it matter?

[Soo Ma Tai]

The only way there would ever be a re-unification into one group would be if everyone joined back up with Dag. As far as they are concerned, there is no other choice. I don't blame them them, it's just how the organization runs.

As far as having a big event with all Foam fighting groups invited. The biggest problem there would be is marketing it to Dag folks. Even if it was put on by a group of individuals not associated with Dag or Bel, you still coulnd't post it on the Dag boards since it's not a Dag sponsored event. The only way you could do it would be to e-mail all the realms/people individually and get the word out that way. It's a much tougher route than just posting about it, but it could be done. I personally think it would be way cool. I just have my doubts about the success of such a venture.

[Ryker]

I crafted a detailed response to Ryker, but really the argument is fruitless. If some groups want to be politically independent they have they have the right to play the game without signing a contract. If a group is comfortable with the contract and want to be Dag, they have that right, too. As long as each is willing to play nice together, why does it matter?

awww......come on.....responses make me feel warm, fuzzy and special!

[MagnusofDregoth]

See, this thread is the reason we don't discuss other groups on the Dag board. Every time it happens on the Bel board, this kind of thing comes up.

Let's just make one thing clear: Dominus != Dagorhir. But simply because he's been the website administrator for the past seven years, that is the impression everyone gets. I'm not saying you're wrong if you get the (erroneous) impression that everything Dominus says is exactly what everyone else in Dag believes, nor am I saying that Dagorhir is necessarily wrong to have had the same admin for seven years (though that is going to change soon, I believe, but only because finally other people have stepped up and said that they can take responsibility for some of these things), that's just the fact.

The internet is basically the sole interaction many people have had with Dagorhir, and the internet is, as you should know, the schizophrenic, mutant evil twin of the real world. This goes both ways, too--a lot of Dag people don't know anything about Belegarth aside from what they've heard on the internet, so they have a distorted view of what Belegarth is like. As far as I know, in every case except maybe one (though I don't remember specifically what that is) when Dagorhir and Belegarth groups are near to each other, they always participate in each others' events. This is true in Illinois, in Ohio, in Missouri even, and I think it will continue to be true. This is what happens in the real world, and in the real world people get along.

[Soo Ma Tai]

You're right Magnus, Doninus does not represent all of Dag, but he does represent the views of the Aratari BoD, and that's the part that really counts. They don't promote foam fighting, they promote Dagorhir only (understandably). Belegarth allows for anyone from any group to post their events here. Dagorhir has stated that as an organization they are in competetion for membership with us and everyone else. Belegarth has no such competetion.

I for one, was told directly, that is we became part of the Belegarth WC, we have legal action brought against us. This is what led to our dis-association with Dag. Though no suit was actually filed, Aratari BoD did threaten legal action, which is enough for almost anyone to say, nevermind, I think I'll stick with the easy going crowd.

[Forkbeard]

Everybody keeps saying that they"understand" where Dominus and his buddies who only want to "promote" Dag are coming from.
I do not. It isn't a business, it's people playing sword tag. Just like us.
I said this before, every Bel event is open to everyone. Every Bel event is this so called
'great event with all foam fighters invited.
So why don't more of them show up?
FB

[Angmarth]

A lot of it is geographical location Fork, the rest of it is either 1) ignorance or 2) fear. (My opinion of course)

There are exceptions to this (i.e. Kyrax), but:

Dagorhirim are either ignorant of our existence or fear that it will be held against them.

[Arrakis]

Magnus, I don't want to see, "LoL WhicH LarP is The BEst!?11one" threads on the Dag boards; I just don't want to be banned for trying to tell someone about a MASSIVE Belegarth Realm in their back yard (see recent posts about Murfreesboro, TN and Northern KY...) when there are no Dag chapters within 50 miles and they just want to fight! New people don't care about politics, but they will grow faster as a fighter and become more able to attend Dag events more quickly if they start fighting with an established group of fighters than if they try to start a from-scratch Dag chapter out of their high-school buddies.

That and the ability to cross-post events (the way Dag events are encouraged to be cross-posted here) on the Dag boards are all anyone would need to see for them to believe that Dag is finally over the (extremely childish) mindset of "Well, FINE, you don't want to play our game, then GET OUT!" Then we can all live in peace and **** harmony.

I go to every practice of every system I can get to: SCA, Belegarth, Dagorhir, The Realms (a tap larp that has a student org on campus) , A Yale club's spinoff of Quest... Whatever! Just fight!

[MagnusofDregoth]

A lot of it is geographical location Fork, the rest of it is either 1) ignorance or 2) fear. (My opinion of course)

There are exceptions to this (i.e. Kyrax), but:

Dagorhirim are either ignorant of our existence or fear that it will be held against them.

Yes indeed, if there were a Bel realm near Philadelphia I would make a point of visiting every so often, and going to events. But there is not, so I really only make it to about 1 event a year (Spring War or Octoberfest) because there are a ton of Dag events really close, not to mention Scadian fighting as well.

[Big King Jimmy]

a lot of Dag people don't know anything about Belegarth aside from what they've heard on the internet, so they have a distorted view of what Belegarth is like.

I'm curious.... what do they think we're like? Be blunt, I'm down for a laugh.

[Arrakis]

What I overheard being told by one of the more senior members of Anvard to the younglings:

Yeah, they fight a lot like us, but they're more stick-jockish. A lot of them are good fighters, but they don't do almost any characterization; Arrakis has probably the best garb (Ed. note: I lol'd) of any Belegarth person I've ever seen.

So, for the most part, while it seemed like they almost felt like Belegrim were big, bad, garb-less stick-jock ass-whoopers, they weren't, you know... TOO far from the mark.

I corrected their idea that Belegrim don't really garb up worth a *, by the way. Or tried to. The big, bad, ass-whoopers thing... I think I'll let that one go...

[Big King Jimmy]

What I overheard being told by one of the more senior members of Anvard to the younglings:

Yeah, they fight a lot like us, but they're more stick-jockish. A lot of them are good fighters, but they don't do almost any characterization; Arrakis has probably the best garb (Ed. note: I lol'd) of any Belegarth person I've ever seen.

So, for the most part, while it seemed like they almost felt like Belegrim were big, bad, garb-less stick-jock ass-whoopers, they weren't, you know... TOO far from the mark.

I corrected their idea that Belegrim don't really garb up worth a *, by the way. Or tried to. The big, bad, ass-whoopers thing... I think I'll let that one go...

:: Mr Burn's esk ::

Excellent.

[bo1]

to forkbeard:
i think i understand, at least i have a theory why dag, more specifically aratari, and even more over dominus, has such a competitve business like attitude. it is money. they hold a big event with 1500 people at it. 40$ a head, is $60,000, there is no feasts( the second largest event cost there is), a park to rent and no infrastructure at the event to maintain. i was there this year, it is extra if you want a cabin. basically it is a big empty space with lots of hills and really a pretty crappy site. site costs are the biggest expence at an event, but to think it costs 30k to rent a park for 10 days is a bit silly, but lets say it is in fact 30k$. 10k for expendables covers anyhting that could possibly come up. plus there is vendor fees and i talked to a vendor and they stated they get a percentage of the sales as well. so total that all up and profit for the event is probibly over 20 k. That is alot of money, where does it go? i know where belegarth money goes, but we are talking 500$ a year in profit, it is in the bank account, it pays for arm every year, now we dont have to barrow to run the event anymore.

that is just my theory, i am probibly wrong and everything is on the up and up. perhaps i am just being unreasonable and am missing some large costs.

as to the split, we got the better part, our game is strong. i think a different web policy would go a long way to making for a better environment for both games.

yes geography has a huge part, if you live in IL, why would you be dag, events are further, and smaller than bel events. that would be like being a bel group in PE, makes no sence, you are in dag country.

dag fighters do tend(broad generalization here) to characterize more than bel fighters. we have monsters, but really we have no elves and no dwarves to speak of. we have very few that speak in silly accents.

bel fighters generally tend to work harder on fighting prowess, but the 10 best bel fighters are not much better than the 10 best dag fighters. the difference is the 50% fighter, the average guy at bel is significantly better than the average guy at a dag event, at least from what i saw at rag this year, which could have been an anomoly.

One thing i did notice, the absolute rediculous hit taking at rag this year. i was told that it was bad, but jesus mother mary holy *, i have never had anything like it in my life. i have had a wierd thing happen now and then at an event, but this was like 25% of the field. incredible. i had a guy call head and get mad when he put his shield in front of his face, then ran into me, causing him to eat the back of his shield. he then preceeded to thank me for hitting him in the head. i never even swung my * sword. this was just one tidbit of many. ther was the guy that called me dead, while running past i heard him from behind, i tossed my shield behind my back, he hit it as he went past, then turned around and said" i hit you in the back". i took death but explained that i actually blocked the shot after the fight was over.

but hey, i play both will continue to play both and look forward to a better webpolicy on the dag boards, which i broke the rules to, worst judgement i have ever used. i laugh about it now, but at the time i made such a mistake, i think i broke every rule in like 3 posts total. that is what happens when you don't think before you speak in an unfreindly environment. yes dag boards, when you are a bel fighter, are an unfriendly location.

[Dedric]

As far as Dag costs, last year Spring Valley raised the rate slightly, and the DBGA actually LOST money on Rag. The Militia actually had to donate money to buy the glowsticks for the Battle of Sin City.

[Big King Jimmy]

As far as Dag costs, last year Spring Valley raised the rate slightly, and the DBGA actually LOST money on Rag. The Militia actually had to donate money to buy the glowsticks for the Battle of Sin City.

That's horse ****. If this is the case, someone is ripping them the **** off. If a Bel event that is half price, serves feasts and has less than half the population of Rag can be profitable, then someone is doing some serious skimming. It's ****.

[Dedric]

The funding information is publicly available to the entire RWC, and yes, they ARE getting ripped off. The trouble is finding a centralized location. This year at Rag, there was at least one serious proposal to move the site next year because of the costs.

As far as "skimming," I'm not buying it. Not only are the costs freely available to those who are interested, but Aratari regularly holds events for $15-20/weekend including a feast. Earlier this year I was at Gates of Fire where the campground raised the rates on us by only $1/day per person, and that would have gone over the available funds (Erekose was able to talk them down, I believe).

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

Jimmy, how much site finding have you done, out of curiosity? Parks that meet all of our wants/needs are getting harder & harder to find, particularly near some form of civilization or at a decent cost. As national parks adopt zero-tolerance alcohol policies, that greatly removes available, wide open places, at decent rates. Private facilities can charge whatever the hell they want, regardless of whether they are screwing you out the * or not.

[Big King Jimmy]

Touche, also considering how large a site they need...

Still, that's crazy.

[bo1]

can you get a link to the funding info, i would like to read it first hand, cause until it is linked i call bs. not saying you are lieing, i just need to read it first hand. secondhand info is speculation, which i was doing, and stated so. if better info is available i would like to see it.

i will be the first to admit when i am wrong, so please make me eat my post.

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

Touche, also considering how large a site they need...

Still, that's crazy.

Agreed, unfortunately it is a fact of life. Here in our neck of Kentucky we are having to go at least 2 hours in any direction to find something worth using at a decent cost. And we have a butt load of wide open spaces.

[Dedric]

So far as I know those numbers aren't available online. However, as a non-profit the DBGA is required to provide financial statements, upon requests. Either way, the numbers are known by the Rag War Council, as well as by the other groups who have significant say in the running of Rag, specifically Eryndor (Athron ran it this year), and The Ravens (who have had a significant hand in running it for something like five years now), and no one I've talked to who has been "in the know" has ever painted any other picture to me than the one I listed.

I agree that the prices are ridiculous. I really think a rich LARPer should buy their own tract of land and set it up for regular events, renting it out to each group. Among Belegarth, Dagorhir, Amtgard, NERO, some smaller groups, and possibly SCA (if they wanted to hold events there), they could easily make good money doing it, and at the same time cut Spring Valley's costs by probably 50%, anyway. Problem is, we have to find the right person(s) who are willing to do it. There was a proposal at Rag this year about it, but it looks like it was getting turned down - too much financial outlay from too many people, and not enough guarantees.

[Big King Jimmy]

So far as I know those numbers aren't available online. However, as a non-profit the DBGA is required to provide financial statements, upon requests. Either way, the numbers are known by the Rag War Council, as well as by the other groups who have significant say in the running of Rag, specifically Eryndor (Athron ran it this year), and The Ravens (who have had a significant hand in running it for something like five years now), and no one I've talked to who has been "in the know" has ever painted any other picture to me than the one I listed.

I agree that the prices are ridiculous. I really think a rich LARPer should buy their own tract of land and set it up for regular events, renting it out to each group. Among Belegarth, Dagorhir, Amtgard, NERO, some smaller groups, and possibly SCA (if they wanted to hold events there), they could easily make good money doing it, and at the same time cut Spring Valley's costs by probably 50%, anyway. Problem is, we have to find the right person(s) who are willing to do it. There was a proposal at Rag this year about it, but it looks like it was getting turned down - too much financial outlay from too many people, and not enough guarantees.

LOLOLOL..... You mean like... Keggland? Stone House Park? We have it, and I'm sure Dag would LOVE to host a rag there.

[Derian]

Yeah, Kegg has done so, and it's awesome.

Belegarth just started using it as of Armageddon this year and NERO events are held there regularly as well, I believe.

[Arrakis]

Ye gods, what an awesome and ungraspable olive branch it would be for Kegg to extend if he were to offer to host Ragnarok XXV there...

[MagnusofDregoth]

The location just wouldn't work, I fear, it's too far north. But I hope to make it out to Springwar and/or Oktoberfest next year.

To clarify my earlier comment about Dagorhirrim's perception of Belegarth folks, I think Arrakis has it largely correct. The impression that a lot of Bel guys give off at Dagorhir events is often pretty condescending, to the point of being a real turn-off. At Ragnaroks 18-19, which were my second and third national events (respectively) with 19 being the first one to which a sizable contingent of Belegarth fighters showed up, I got a really unfriendly and hostile vibe from them. I am not exaggerating, they would actually sneer at me when I squared up against them (talking mostly Hellhammer guys, iirc) and one Triad guy (don't want to name names, not sure I remember it right anyway, but this was at 18 when I had only just over a year of experience) actually said when coming up to fight me, and I remember it vividly, "Just take a death, I don't want to bother with killing you again."

Obviously this is not helped by the fact that Dominus (and people of a similar mindset) sometimes seem to be implying that everyone in Belegarth is Kegg's butt-buddy (in one e-mail pre-Rag 18, which I got because I was a realm leader, of Anvard, at the time) Dominus lashed out at Onyx and everyone else who had simply asked whether we were going to reinstate the ban on certain persons' attending Ragnarok, and he said "Kegg's * will be at Armageddon, feel free to go there and suck it." Whereas, at around the same time, there were people on this board (or, rather, its prior incarnation from 2003) saying "I can't believe you were able to pry your lips off Dominus' * to come on here and type that pathetic response," etc etc. Basically, it was like the Great Schism of 1054 all over again, and I had certainly picked an odd moment to come into Dagorhir.

So, while there are definite cultural differences, I don't think it is fair to characterize one group as superior. I agree that the average Belegarth fighter is probably more skilled than the average Dagorhir fighter, and I have a number of theories about why this might be but they are not all that relevant right now. At the same time, Dagorhir seems by and large to be more accepting, or rather encouraging, of people who want to make nicer garb and armor. Part of this, probably a large part, has to do with the internet presence--Dagorhir has the same website we had before the split (not kidding, check out the Internet Archive) and as such it has not been updated in a manner commensurate with the increase in interest among Dag fighters (such as yours truly) in better fighting, better gear, etc etc so as a result, new fighters in remote locations just don't pick up on those elements of the game. By comparison, Belegarth has gone through about three site designs (right?) since 2001, as well as three online forums, and each one has represented an improvement in content and design. Thus, it is easier for new Bel folks to get a sense of how the game works than it is for Dag folks, so Dagorhir isn't as cohesive as Bel in many ways. This means that Dagorhir is, in my opinion, less cliquish or conformist, but it also means that Dagorhir tends to have more people come in with weird, nonsensical and/or flurby ideas that people who have actually participated before know wouldn't be practical or worthwhile, but the new fighters simply don't have a handle on this.

[Alunsun]

Wow, is this for real? What's the difference between Bel and Dag?

I'm giving this thread the time of day because I presume that you really want to know. It has been said before: The administration for Dag is terrible! A shining example of the level of incompetence in the Dagorhir community is the situation in Puerto Rico.

Ryker:
Warwell is absolutely right about the DBGA getting involved with the governance of local chapters. As a matter of fact, you are both right. However, it is funny that you mention an individual ruining the name of Dagorhir by doing malicious and/ or stupid things while still calling themselves Dagorhir, because that is exactly what happened here in Puerto Rico. Thing is, what did the DBGA do about it? Absolutely nothing.

Since we're on the subject and the wound has been blown open and salt has been poured all over it, let's get up to our elbows in drama:

Everyone here already knows what the administration for Dag here in Puerto Rico is like, they have experienced HIS (meaning ONE FRIKKIN PERSON = Dag Administration for the whole island) antics both on these boards and on the fireboards. Not only that, but he is so far up Graymael's * that he is free to do anything he wants, even break Dag rules and use "House Rules" on an "official Dag field," without any reprocussions because, to paraphrase Graymael, the Dag administration is too busy to deal with personal problems, much less problems in the sport, much less problems in the sport in "another country."


To the person that started this thread and anyone else like them:
Drama is never a good thing. If you continue to poke and prod when most people you ask tell you not to ask, and you're not getting paid for it, then you've already knocked yourself down a peg socially for being a drama queen. If you're new and have nothing to do with it, don't worry about it. What's the big deal? Pick up a sword and let whoever has a problem with another deal with it however they want. If there is a problem and someone is not cross- fighting, then it's personal (ie their business). No one cares, and neither should you. Dag fighters are whatever, there's people you like and those you don't. Graymael, Erykose, Akeron, and Dominus (AKA the Dag administration) are colostomy bags.


**** them

[Alunsun]

come to a belegarth event and find out for yourself!

QFT