Belegarth

Solusar wrote:Darkon and Amtgard are mentioned more frequently than you think. Especially with Thrush on the boards.

I did a search on Amtgard before my superban. It's mentioned by Dominus, and by Oznog.

Tor wrote:[youtube]-8MjBU2sNK4&autoplay=0&loop=1[/youtube]

[youtube]y-3U5-isaHg&autoplay=0&loop=1[/youtube]

Tor, grow up.

**** yeah, page two!

[youtube]sWS-FoXbjVI&autoplay=0&loop=1[/youtube]

Finally, this thread is made of win!

.

Ok, that * me off. They* can quote all their little rules banning content regarding us, but Edhellen is a legitimate boffer supplier. That's a load of BS if that is how they* are going to act.

*They being the 5% of Dag that suck.

[youtube]7wMHcpMmV9g&autoplay=0&loop=1[/youtube]

I dont like how they keep on adding rules based on bele.
I was just sent a warning because of telling a guy on one side of NC, that when i move to the other side of NC, I am planning to have practice somewhere in the middle.

They ask me to not mention any practices of any kind until I turn in my paperwork...
and the PM warning about how they have read on these forums about making it Bele too
I feel like I had a background check on how much of a pure-blooded Dag fighter I might be.


i know there is some paranoia, i didnt know that when i go to Rag, I will have to pee in a cup with registration

Outhro, that is some *.

Just contact Namtar and get registerated as a unit of Anvard. Then, if you like, you can make yourself a Bel Realm or Unit as well.

They can't really **** with units.

But you're also not allowed to post for your unit in the New People forum.

Also, the way to do it is to register as a Dag chapter, call your Bel chapter a different name, and have "joint" practices with the "two" groups. I believe that in order not to be in violation of the contract, you have to use Dagorhir rules, but honestly, right at this moment they're better written anyway and you can use whatever modified house ruleset you like. So if you like 20 gauge metal armour and being able to run around with peoples' arrows, then by all means, do so.

I'm a big fan of Dagorhir as well as Belegarth, I love Ragnarok, but the board-side paranoia is just overwhelming. And some of their new mods seem to actually buy into it. Sigh . . .

where I live will be my Black Corsair unit. I will go for Anvard Unit if they complain I dont have paperwork sent in.

3hour drive to Raleigh will be where the Dag realm will be established where the house rules are anybody can show up.
plus because almost everyone there is new, it is teach it all and establish the diferences of rules.

When I go to a Dag or Bele event, I will give a 2 month heads up to know who is coming with me.
The dag boards will find out because i wrote this here, but they need to just leave me to establish foam fighting and anybody going to any event they want to. No line in the sand, no rivalry. New people know nothing about the split, why tell them the drama?

Lets all just pummel each other, and chat about it on the boards.

If you don't register your realm under Dag, but call yourself Dagorhir, you'll get a cease and decist (SP?) from Dag, inc. If you do register your realm, but advertise anything other than being Dag, you'll recieve the same thing. IMO you should just not bother with Dag, and just make up a good advertising campaign to get your realm(s) up and running. Dagorhir's politics are stiffling and they don't want to promote the foam fighting community as a whole. There is no reason to support Dag (as an organization) when they wont support anything anyone else is doing.

What if a Boy Scout troop wanted to also be a Dagorhir realm? This one got me pondering recently.

For legal reasons it would have to be separate. They could participate in Dagorhir, and I suppose they could even participate as their Scout Troop (at least "out of character") but if they wanted to actually be an official group it would have to be under a different name. I think that's pretty standard for most organizations, really.

It's kind of lame how much this discussion is just complaining about Dagorhir. Honestly, Belegarth benefits by NOT comparing itself to Dagorhir all the time. It's got enough going for it that complaining about the online policies of another game is not productive.

*poke*

Will

That one was a question about on real-life policy, not online policy. I'll never stop being against the censorship of the main boards, because it is counterproductive to the community and to Dagorhir itself. As for real life policy, you have a definite point. Nearly all organizations do not generally have dual affiliations. I just thought it'd be a little funny to have a scout leader receive a cease and desist letter telling him they couldn't play the game anymore.

The interesting concept here is that none of us are simply an organization. All of us have a sport attached to our respective organizations. That's where the trickiness comes in. It is not uncommon for people to play several sports, or have several sports at the same location, such as a gym, school, or community center. It is also not uncommon for organizations to host sporting leagues, such as a bowling team in the Red Cross. Sometimes in order to form a group, great concessions have to be made to formation rules. For instance, in Amtgard, anyone can run for the realm leadership positions, but on our local campus, only students in good standing would be allowed to run, which is a violation of corpora (anyone can run for positions). If we want to use the gym, we would have to set up as an intermural sport, and find another school to fight against us in regionals. There would have to be an athletics charge billed to a student's account for participating, and non-students would not be able to participate in the game, which is also a violation of corpora(no pay to play, play is open to all). We'd get to use the stadium, though... Instead we piggyback on the existing Gamer's Club to get legitimate access to facilities. Many of our players attend the school, so it's not fraudulent, but as folks graduate, our number of students must be maintained to avoid trouble. So yeah, we belong to two organizations at the same time, and every other scenario would make us violate rules. If we we tried to be a Dagorhir realm instead of an Amtgard park, I don't see how it could work within the rules. It would be pay-to-play, part of two organizations, or exclusive of the public.

So, there is the possibility of mundanes already in some sort of organization taking the relatively simple rules of play of Dagorhir, forming a team to play the game, and then receiving a nasty letter when they try to register with the sport. There's also the possibility that in order to start a realm, major violations of the spirit and letter of the rules would have to occur. The issue is not nearly as simple as it seems, but it's also not a policy I stand adamantly against. Censorship, however, is bad in all it's ugly forms.

I think thats why the group at MU decided to go with Bel over Dag. Weird considering MO is way more Dag heavy than Bel heavy. Thats where all the stupid split hiccups really come out beyond the rivalry stuff.

There's a major issue with our game and games like it:

We are a sport with certain rules and we try to promote ourselves as such. You don't need to buy any official anything to play. So, in effect, we're like baseball or basketball or, more generally, kickball (no official equipment used in most places).

BUT. We're also like the American Football League. Or the National Football League. Or the NBA. Or whatever bowling league. So, we have policies that aren't necessarily sport rules, we have specific variations on the rules that are specific to our particular variant... So, if you want to play Dagorhir, say, you have to follow Dag's rules. It's like saying you're an NCAA Football team. That means something specific.

BUT! If you want to just play football... you can. You can't just play football and then call yourselves Minor League of Whatever if Minor League of Whatever has rules regarding how to become a member of it, but you can still play THE GAME.



So. People like to do this thing were we hit each other at full-strength with well-padded sticks. Mostly, they ally themselves with one of two or three major Leagues and a few smaller local Leagues. The problem is: We Don't Have a Nationally Recognized Name for the Sport. Other than Foamfighting (which is relatively accepted) and Boffing/Boffer Fighting/Boffer Sports (all of which have connections to and connotations of lighter-hitting games that aren't at all like Bel/Dag[/AmtDitching]), you pretty much have to call your sport by its League, right now, and that sometimes makes it harder for small groups to play. When Dagorhir says, "You have to do these things or you can't use our name", they're saying, to go back partway to analogy, that unless you're an official member of the Foamfighting League of Dagorhir, you can't use their official stuff or sell official merchandise.

And that's fine! They can protect their League trademark just as aggressively as they like.

When groups join a Leauge, though, it's generally not their first time playing the sport of which the League is. Dag, as a League-that-is-also-a-Sport-with-the-same-name-as-the-League, is squashing the sport in an effort to protect the League. I could almost see someone making an argument that Dagorhir is now non-trademarkable, like Kleenex or Google (as a tissue or a verb meaning "to search"), due to its heavy use to indicate the sport of Dagorhir instead of the organization. Probably not, though, as there's plenty of caselaw on boardgames and roleplaying games that would probably apply...

Anyway. The point is: Currently, the nature of the game we play is inseparable from the names of the organizations that are over each subset of the game. That makes life difficult for anyone wishing to officially participate in the games, especially the more legally-rigorous/vigilant ones, like Dagorhir. Bel is easier to get along with, as the organization makes fewer demands on groups wishing to join their League, but then you run into difficulties of advertisement; Most people don't know that that Dag-uh-here thing they saw last night on the Discovery Channel is almost the same * sport as the Belegarth Realm practicing in their very town and, the way Dagorhir's organizational policy currently works, there's really no way to tell them that in an advertisement or in any real way where they'd be able to find the information.

Semi-Related: There was a guy in Louisville on the Dag boards recently, asking if there was an active Chapter closer than Indianapolis; he was told that he was pretty much SoL and should totally just start a new Chapter. Now, I'm all for new Chapters and Realms (yay growth!), but there's a big, major, experienced Bel Realm literally in this kids back yard and I couldn't tell him. And that just sucks for him. If only there were some legal distinction between Dagorhir the Sport and Dagorhir the League of Sportsmen.

It's a thorny problem. I have no solutions at this time.

My new recruitment posters are gonna read something like "See that show on Discovery Jan 20th, Wreckreation Nation. Want to fight like you saw there, Join the Realm of Stygia, a medieval combat group." That seems to be the best way to maintain integrity and use the PR generated by the show to recruit. All the while never using the Dag name.

coulc someone ask what rules peter the quick broke to get banned? i would love to read an explanation.

Very well written Arrakis. Looks like you know write too.

bo1 wrote:coulc someone ask what rules peter the quick broke to get banned? i would love to read an explanation.

They don't have to, it's a "private" board. I would venture to guess he wasn't one of the cool kids.

Arrakis wrote:Semi-Related: There was a guy in Louisville on the Dag boards recently, asking if there was an active Chapter closer than Indianapolis; he was told that he was pretty much SoL and should totally just start a new Chapter. Now, I'm all for new Chapters and Realms (yay growth!), but there's a big, major, experienced Bel Realm literally in this kids back yard and I couldn't tell him. And that just sucks for him. If only there were some legal distinction between Dagorhir the Sport and Dagorhir the League of Sportsmen.

It's a thorny problem. I have no solutions at this time.

My 'solution' was to let the kid know there is an offical Dag group starting up about 2 hours from him and if/when he makes it, it will also be mentioned there is something closer to him, but explaint he differences & let him choose. If he wants to explore the local Bal group, rock on, otherwise, he is obviously welcome to continue on with the Dag group here, or start his own in Lousiville, which will probably get little support since its a Bel-heavy area.

It's not a great solution & definitely not intended to be a "lure", but just a way to let the young kid know there is something already established so he doesn't have to take the weight of starting a realm just so he can fight.

Peter didn't break any rules. He tried to join the board two years ago and was never approved, but was approved when the new board was started. Yet he got banned without even coming close to breaking the rules.

Arrrrgh. All he did was compliment us on our cool new site feature, and also post an approving comment on a humorous image of some ducks.

Dam him! (with beavers and trees and stuff)

its all that yellow cake.

Peter's so famous that he now has official haters.

I blame television!!! after they got on camera, now they are all divas.
I hear Dominus uses 5 coats of wax on his head.
The wax was made from baby whale orphans!!

Apparently someone misread his post and reported him as a troll to the moderators. Lame.

so is that fixable?

I think at the base of it, this is what really bothers me about the Dagorhir policies: They would rather you not play, than play another game.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's clearly their right to run their boards however they choose. Not questioning that. It is, as the above poster alluded, exactly like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I just saw the midwest dagorhir boards for the first time.
They seem a little heavily moderated, but they are running Edhellen Advertising!! So they can't be totaly under the Man's thumb.
FB

Yeah, the Midwest boards are still pretty heavily moderated, but it's more that the admins want people to be nice and happy and get along and rainbows and fairies sort of moderation, not the heavy-handed "Dagorhir or bust" style of the national boards.

Oisin wrote:Yeah, the Midwest boards are still pretty heavily moderated, but it's more that the admins want people to be nice and happy and get along and rainbows and fairies sort of moderation, not the heavy-handed "Dagorhir or bust" style of the national boards.

Quoted for truth.

Linky for the lazy?