Belegarth

From the Armour Archive thread wrote:Prova Dura is a grand tournament held every 3 years in the west; one of the goals is to bring as many dukes on one field as possible . There are actually two tournaments -- Prova Dura on Saturday, open to all comers, a brutal (aka "ill nasty") and ferocious tournament, and Prova Di Amore on Sunday, to which a select few fighters are invited by the gallery based on their actions the day before. That one is also burtal, but requires a bit less stamina.

Some of the music may be NSFW...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiLxanGTwNg

If I had had any doubts about SCA combat being as fast-paced as ours, I don't have them any more after watching this video.

Notice, too, that there are small shields and variety of fighting styles. The armor and garb is really nice too.

Wow, guy with the axe and sword had a glorious win

That was some really great fighting, beautiful garb and armor all around.

It looks so much better when people actually fall down dead. I never really thought about that before. Thanks for posting this Kyrian.

That's way intense. Makes me want to seriously start attending some SCA combat.

Honestly when I see sca done at the post i see a lot of simalirities between the styles of belegarth and the SCA, besides of course the hit restritions.

While on the outside the two games appear very similar in fighting style but when you look deeper into it the differ alot.

Technique is alot different when you approach the upper level of the SCA. Many shots that are thrown in Belegarth don't work at SCA for a couple of reasons. None of this applies to a local shire or some distant barony where there isn't a knight/duke/count to be found. These groups exists on the fringe of SCA and likely deliever and accept lighter blows. A good Belegarth fighter will quickly jump to the front of the pack at these remote groups, but when go and play with the big boys they'll quickly be put in their place.

Reasons why Belegarth shots don't work in the SCA:

1. Very few, if any, Belegarth fighter throw with more then just arm. Too many Belegarth fighters rely on wrists and forearms to deliever a shot and not their bodies to deliever the needed force to land a shot at SCA. While this works fine in Belegarth because we accept a lighter shot then the SCA, this doesn't cut it in when you're throwing stick. If you notice that when they throw a shot in that video that their whole body rotates. That increase their power generation immensely. The Belegrim fighters that swing like this routinely complained that they hit too hard or their weapon fails.

2. Too many shots within Belegarth rely on just barely connecting. In Belegarth you can get away with a tap and most people will take it and this is reflected in the fighting styles of a lot of people. Taps and light shots don't cut it in SCA. What it comes down to is a difference in the rules. When judging a shot in Belegarth, we're told it has to be sufficent force. Most people gage this on if the weapon connects with positive force, meaning that it was intentionally swung to hit. SCA on the other hand judges a good blow based on an armour standard, i.e. would that shot have hurt me if I was wearing a maile and a open face helm. This allows the SCA's calibration to vary distractly from Belegarth. If you accept a blow in SCA as you would in Belegarth, you do a disservice to yourself in their game. If you accept a blow in Belegarth as you would in SCA, you will be considered cheating by the vast majority of the populace.

Don't get me wrong. I greatly enjoy SCA fighting and I greatly enjoy Belegarth fighting. But you have to understand that they are two seperate games and played two seperate ways. It takes alot of relearning to transition from Belegarth to SCA and it takes a good amount of commitment to keep the two seperate and playe them the way they're supposed to be played.

Winfang.

I want to do that.

Sweet video..already bookmarked.

xiao wrote:Winfang.

I want to do that.

How so?

You're all up in the SCA circuit right?

Nice video!

(Go Trimaris!)

Ah the land where people do not get angry when they tap you. I look forward to getting my new helm to get back into it.

West Kingdom has some great fighters, makes me wonder if any of those I use to fight with in Meridies went there...

The more I watch SCA videos It makes me really want to get into it. But At my small size I don't think I'd really be able to get too far amoungst the heavy armor.

Look for a old wardog by the name of the mad Celt or the woman known as Sirrah Kat

The Mad Celt retired this year I believe. Kat is still fighting tho

Uargvak wrote:The more I watch SCA videos It makes me really want to get into it. But At my small size I don't think I'd really be able to get too far amoungst the heavy armor.

You would do fine Vak. It is no different then Belegarth. Speed kills. We have several good women fighters locally that are much smaller then you.

I finally got all the video copied to my computer from the Candlemas tournament from Feburary. Candlemas is suppose to the premier tournament east of the Mississppi. The quarter finals where Duke Brannos vs Duke Palymar and Prince Valharic vs Cpt Sasha. The finals where Duke Brannos and Cpt Sasha.

Also Uargvak, if you use the proper technique you can throw a telling blow no problem. You need to start a shot from the body instead of just the arm just like in boxing or any martial arts. Very few people can get away with throwing with their arms. You should try to find video of Sir Vitus and Sir Ustad, both are from Kentucky. These guys are very small yet pack a punch.

Winfang wrote:I finally got all the video copied to my computer from the Candlemas tournament from Feburary. Candlemas is suppose to the premier tournament east of the Mississppi. The quarter finals where Duke Brannos vs Duke Palymar and Prince Valharic vs Cpt Sasha. The finals where Duke Brannos and Cpt Sasha.

Also Uargvak, if you use the proper technique you can throw a telling blow no problem. You need to start a shot from the body instead of just the arm just like in boxing or any martial arts. Very few people can get away with throwing with their arms. You should try to find video of Sir Vitus and Sir Ustad, both are from Kentucky. These guys are very small yet pack a punch.

* it. You didnt say who won. I would have to say that Sasha is my favorite fighter up to this point. He is a younger guy that certainly doesnt have the experience of the other names on there. He is a great athlete and very aggresive.

My first experience with him was at Pennsic last year. I had no clue who he was and got to do some pick up fights with him. Needless to say I was very impressed. He made it to the finals of the Crown that was held in Peoria.

Here is a video of those finals. Sasha is black and white.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr0QwJ6Lj9A

Winfang, who is the fighter in the Prova dura video with the black and white feathers in his helmet? Fought with a really tiny shield in the 2nd round.

Duke Brannos did, 2-0. I'll get some of the video up.

I've been meaning to get some pickups with him, but he seemed in a hurry at Baron Wars. I did however to get spar some with Duke Ragnvaldr which was some good stuff.

Here is a picture of me on the left.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michailsca ... 239473147/

This is who I believe you're talking about. He's using a buckler in that fight.
Hans von Wolfholz
http://history.westkingdom.org/Year39/Photos/LPD63.htm

Hmmnnn, so you can be a good fighter without a door-sized shield huh?

Of course, no shots below the knee and the almost non-existance of missile weapons (for the most part) helps make that possible.

Makes me miss my time in the SCA, when I was on the small side, but fast, fast, fast. Speed does kill, but do do 6'5" lefties that hit *hard* and expect no less.

Winfang wrote:I finally got all the video copied to my computer from the Candlemas tournament from Feburary. Candlemas is suppose to the premier tournament east of the Mississppi. The quarter finals where Duke Brannos vs Duke Palymar and Prince Valharic vs Cpt Sasha. The finals where Duke Brannos and Cpt Sasha.

Also Uargvak, if you use the proper technique you can throw a telling blow no problem. You need to start a shot from the body instead of just the arm just like in boxing or any martial arts. Very few people can get away with throwing with their arms. You should try to find video of Sir Vitus and Sir Ustad, both are from Kentucky. These guys are very small yet pack a punch.

Is that Ustad the Dreaded from barony of the flame? Great man, have not seen him in a long time.

Yeah, that's him. I think his dreadlocks are as long as he is tall.

Only man I know that his hair is legal helm padding

I forgot about Duke Eliahu who is small also.

Some more good SCA videos. These are from Duke Logan of Ebonwoulfe in Atlantia. He's is definately one awesome fighter.

http://www.ebonwoulfe.com/fighting.htm

Thanks Winfang. I noticed him a few fights. Not only was he fast, he tended to pop his sword into a guard position more frequently than other fighters, instead of just leaving his arm out there. A little stylish on the approach, but he seemed to get more serious as he got closer. Also looked like he had fast footwork. Main weakness I could tell was that it seemed like his shield tended to dip a little low for SCA fighting. From what I could tell, dropping his shield that low is what got him killed almost every time.

Although most of the shots he threw would never be Belegarth legal, he moved his body an awful lot like a foam fighter. Too bad he lost. Kind of funny the guy I liked the most lost so many times. Stupid head shots =-).

Headshots make the game so much more fun and it just feels more realistic. You've got to try it!

I want to! There are four main things I don't like about SCA.

1. The reenactment stuff. I think I may be too much of a (foam)stick guy.

2. Some battle rules. I'm not fond of the leg shot rules, or the side/behind attack rules. I understand why the rules are there, but they make me a little sad. Then again, it makes just as much sense as not being able to swing at heads in Belegarth. I suspect I would adapt well, but I really like leg shots.

3. It also looks like the focus is on tournaments/ 1v1's, not major battles. I just can't imagine being one of 3,000 people on the field, dying, and then sitting out for the next however long until the next battle. It makes me think I should be a polearm user, not a sword fighter. I really like the melee aspects of foam fighting games, and tend to avoid the tournament aspects of our games.

4. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Unless I end up moving to a very heavy SCA/Belegarth light area, I think SCA will be a regret I have when I'm 45.

Ragnvaldr kicked my butt at TOC. He is another of my favorites. I could not believe how quick he was. He was also an amazingly nice guy. Gave me some great pointers. Fighting good left handers can defintily put a few bruises on ya.

Kenneth wrote:I want to! There are four main things I don't like about SCA.

1. The reenactment stuff. I think I may be too much of a (foam)stick guy.

2. Some battle rules. I'm not fond of the leg shot rules, or the side/behind attack rules. I understand why the rules are there, but they make me a little sad. Then again, it makes just as much sense as not being able to swing at heads in Belegarth. I suspect I would adapt well, but I really like leg shots.

3. It also looks like the focus is on tournaments/ 1v1's, not major battles. I just can't imagine being one of 3,000 people on the field, dying, and then sitting out for the next however long until the next battle. It makes me think I should be a polearm user, not a sword fighter. I really like the melee aspects of foam fighting games, and tend to avoid the tournament aspects of our games.

4. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Unless I end up moving to a very heavy SCA/Belegarth light area, I think SCA will be a regret I have when I'm 45.

1. I act no different then I do in SCA then I do Belegarth. I only real type of reenactment that I see is during court. Court is done very respectfully and is very important.

2. That is just safety. There is acutally some pretty fun stuff you can do with this. Nothing stops you from standing behind your opponent and using your sword to pin his weapon against him.

3. Im not really sure why you dont like tourneys Kenny. In SCA especially they are the best ways to show prowess, honor and respect. In a melee no matter how good you are, you just become another fighter.

4. If you have basic leather skills It really is not that expensive. The helmet becomes the one major expense and that will pretty much last forever. You could definitly get by with a basic kit for $200-300.

Here is the Candlemas video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWigVJWLrkY

Trust me on this one... helms last no more than 25 years....

Thorrinn Eikanskaldisson wrote:Trust me on this one... helms last no more than 25 years....

Yes!!!! Definatly trust him on that one He is proof that they will not last forever

SCA:

It lures you in with it's sweet fighting, then...BAM--they hit you with THIS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo_cit8KfHw&mode=related&search=

Hunter S. wrote:SCA:

It lures you in with it's sweet fighting, then...BAM--they hit you with THIS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo_cit8KfHw&mode=related&search=

rofl