Belegarth

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:37 am**

I’m pretty new to belegarth, but I have had a lot of painful and enlightening duals and I’ve decided that I would like to dual wield reds. I made two 53" green/reds with a fiberglass core and a metal pole in the handle to weight it. I know this seems like an odd weapon choice considering I’m 5'11 and 125 pounds but I’m going for the shock factor

. They are heavy but only at the handles they swing really fast and barely flex at all. They pass blade wise and stab tip wise and I’m just wondering if you guys would have any tips for me combat wise? I read through the other pages and holding them closer to the top of the blade gives me a lot more control and strength. I suppose my question is more or less should i keep them at rage and try to stab/ pick out an arm or a leg, or get in a little closer and use one to block and one to fight?

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:35 am**

Here's a grand idea. Don't make stupid **** troll posts in one of the few valuable forums on this board.

Here's another idea. Shut the **** up.

To anyone actually considering replying to this troll - don't (unless it's kind of funny).

To any mods considering nuking this thread - do.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:16 am**

You don't seem stupid enough. Misspell more things, and mis-use the terminology. You're too fluent with our lingo to be this *' clueless.

Hope this helps!

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:59 pm**

Well thanks, I was looking for tips rather than rude comments. Is there some sort of rule in the book of war against florentine reds? I know they can't break shields unless I have two hands on them so I’m using them for reach and if needs be I drop one. So please tell me what is so funny. :fingers:

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:14 pm**

Krimson Ninja wrote:Well thanks, I was looking for tips rather than rude comments. Is there some sort of rule in the book of war against florentine reds? I know they can't break shields unless I have two hands on them so I’m using them for reach and if needs be I drop one. So please tell me what is so funny.

did you ever try to fight with them yet? you must be some strong dude. a lot of people preffer fighting with 32-36 inch blues florentine. just try swinging both of them for 15 minutes without stopping at full force at some punchbag or something. how do your arms feel after that?

well think of dark ages when battles lasted for hours or days and the swords were WAAAAAAY heavier.

oh and question to everyone, is it only 2h-wielded reds that can break shields or can you break them with 2 hits from a blue?

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:15 pm**

My advice, don't do it. Dual reds are going to be too unwieldy. It will be much to easy for another fighter to simply push them aside and step in to smoke you. I don't really have any good advice for you if you really want to do it...develop gorilla arms would be my best.

No you can't break shields with blue stikes.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:24 pm**

Soo Ma Tai wrote:No you can't break shields with blue stikes.

so class 2 is the only one that can break shields? i cant find this inf anywhere, the book of wars on the website seems to have a lot of mistakes.

I also dont understand how much damage does a Class 4 weapon make if it hits unarmored head or armored head.

where can i find a full, decent and "mistakeless" copy of Book of Wars? :neutral:

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:34 pm**

BoW wrote:3.2.2.1. Class 1 (one-handed) Weapons cause one hit of Injury to a Target Area. Any Weapon swung with one hand no matter the size is a Class 1 Weapon, including equipment that qualifies as Class 2 Weaponry. Class 1 weapons swung with two hands causes one hit injury to a Target Area.
3.2.2.2. Class 2 (two-handed) Weapons cause two hits of Injury to the Target Area.
3.2.2.3. Class 3 (thrusting) Weapons wielded one-handed cause one hit of damage to an unarmored Target Area. Class 3 Weapons also cause two hits of damage when wielded two-handed against a Target Area, ignoring any Armor the Target Area may have. If the Target Area is armored, the Weapon must be wielded two-handed to cause damage to the Target Area. A one-handed strike causes no injury to an Armored Target Area.
3.2.2.4. Class 4 (missile) Weapons cause two hits of Injury to a Target Area. A Class 4 Weapon striking an Armored portion of the Head causes no Injury.
3.2.2.5. Class 5 (Head only missile) cause 1 hit of Injury to an unarmored Head area. A Class 5 Weapon striking an Armored portion of the Head area causes no injury.

BoW wrote:3.5.1. Shields can be destroyed by two solid strikes from a Class 2 Weapon. Subsequent strikes to a destroyed Shield continue into the Target Area on which the Shield is worn.

http://belegarth.com/rules.php

If there is any errors they are clerical ones and there is not many of those.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:37 pm**

Thanks a lot anyways, and sorry for invading a thread like this.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:38 pm**

Here's the section that specifies that class II weapons break shields:

3.5.1. Shields can be destroyed by two solid strikes from a Class 2 Weapon. Subsequent strikes to a destroyed Shield continue into the Target Area on which the Shield is worn.

http://www.belegarth.com/rules.php

All of the different copies of the BoW on the website (belegarth.com) are 100% up to date. If you're pulling some from geddon.org, those might not be.

What mistakes are you seeing, perhaps we can lend some clarification.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:59 pm**

Derian wrote:What mistakes are you seeing, perhaps we can lend some clarification.

3.2.2.4. Class 4 (missile) Weapons cause two hits of Injury to a Target Area. A Class 4 Weapon striking an Armored portion of the Head causes no Injury.

there, it could be clarified that it causes 1 point if head is unarmored.
it says it in the next point about class 5, but you can be unsure if it applies to both.

also:

3.6.1.1. A Combatant wearing no Armor may Grapple all opponents.

then:

3.6.4. Combatants with Missile Weapons (Type 4, bow/arrows) may not initiate Grapples or be Grappled.

they could say straight away that unarmored can grapple all except of people with missile weapons.

there was a few more unclear sections but cant find them now. it would make it a lot more user-friendly if those thingies were fixed

i mean yah, rules have to be written in formal language style, but they must be understood easily too.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:08 pm**

They are saying that armor-wise you can grapple anybody. Then they go into weapon restrictions regarding grappling. that ways you can put the rules together to find who you can grapple.

ex. you have plate and you want to grapple an archer wearing plate. You cant because he has a bow though. you have to put the rules together to get the whole picture.

Correct me if I am wrong please.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:11 pm**

BoW wrote:3.2.2.4. Class 4 (missile) Weapons cause two hits of Injury to a Target Area. A Class 4 Weapon striking an Armored portion of the Head causes no Injury.

If you are wearing head armor, headshots from missile weapons don't count.

I don't understand why it needs to be changed.

3.6.4. Combatants with Missile Weapons (Type 4, bow/arrows) may not initiate Grapples or be Grappled.

they could say straight away that unarmored can grapple all except of people with missile weapons

Its legal to wear armor and shoot a bow. So that wouldn't work.

Edit : Plate can never initiate grapple.

3.6.1.4. A Combatant wearing plate Armor may not initiate a Grapple.

On a side note, Derian is Grapple capitalized for a reason?

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:21 pm**

ahh well it does sound simple when explained...
i guess i'm just stupid.. I am blonde after all...

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:22 pm**

ripexz wrote:ahh well it does sound simple when explained...
i guess i'm just stupid.. I am blonde after all...

I'm pretty sure a lot of people need them explained.

I did. And it made perfect sense when they were explained to me.

Doesn't make you stupid

.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:24 pm**

Noik wrote:
ripexz wrote:ahh well it does sound simple when explained...
i guess i'm just stupid.. I am blonde after all...

I'm pretty sure a lot of people need them explained.

I did. And it made perfect sense when they were explained to me.

Doesn't make you stupid .

phew, what a relief, well my IQ is over a hundread, but now they dont seem to take IQ seriously anymore

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:00 pm**

Noik wrote:On a side note, Derian is Grapple capitalized for a reason?

Probably not. I didn't type these up by hand, but rather copy & pasted them, so it's persisting from an earlier version. It was probably one of those minor typos that didn't caught when we mass adopted the BoW in 2001/2002ish. There are a couple, but technically they can't be changed without a vote and it's really not worth it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:47 pm**

Wait so what happens if you place two reds together into one really big sword? Does that make it count as one red? Or basically two really big blues placed together or two reds? Because I have both my hands on both reds.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:57 pm**

If you have two hands on the handle of a class 2 weapon and its hard enough its a red swing.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:19 pm**

Oh and about the whole controll and weight issue when I train with them I have about 10 pounds of weights on both arms. When I take them off I can swing so fast you can't even see the blades. Endurance wise I’m good too, plenty cardio stamina from cross county, I wouldn’t be dual wielding these is I didn't think I could do it.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:23 pm**

The bad thing about that is, you lose your angles of attack horribly when people close on you.

What realm are you from?

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:33 pm**

Aquilonia, I just want to be the guy that everyone goes holy crap don’t mess with him! This seems to be the way for me to go because most people can't do it but its with in my limits.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:47 pm**

Fork is a pretty knowledgeable guy, I'm sure he can clear up any confusion about rules if you ask.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:59 pm**

Physics problem. The farther out a weapon goes, the less effort needed to move it out of the way. The whole thing works like a lever system and with only one hand as a pivot point, anyone can slap your reds to the side with joking effort.

That said, you're welcome to try this, you may shock a first-timer or two, but alot of people are going to see you are an easy target.

This would be the kind of thing you'd ask people in person, so they can spar you and see that you're serious..

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:11 pm**

Noik wrote:Fork is a pretty knowledgeable guy, I'm sure he can clear up any confusion about rules if you ask.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:55 pm**

[quote]When I take them off I can swing so fast you can't even see the blades./quote]

But imagine how fast you would be with regular blues. Much faster and definitely more accurate.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:44 pm**

hey guys can i dual wield scythes too?!?!?!?! :devil:

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:44 pm**

Nibenon wrote:hey guys can i dual wield scythes too?!?!?!?!

Yeah gtfo.

Posted: **Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:49 pm**

sorry i just had to......

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:52 am**

DUELING REDS IS THE BEST OMFG PWNED DO A BARREL ROLL I LOVE MUDKIPS OVER 9000!

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:26 am**

I apologize. I didn't realize you were serious, and I responded to what I thought was a troll. My mistake.

Now, the reason that I assumed you were joking is because this is such a monumentally bad idea. I'm not trying to be rude, or insulting, I'm simply laying out a couple facts. Please understand that this isn't a judgment of you, but of the weapon style you're proposing.

First off, you will not be able to effectively use weapons that size. This is because that at that length, anybody who gets inside your range will be able to mince you before you have a chance to do anything about it. The angles involved mean any competent shieldman will be safe once he gets inside three feet of you.

Second, I'm 100% sure you can swing those swords, even hard enough to count. I'm a big guy, I can swing a red sword one-handed and hit someone with it too. Now throw a wrap shot. Throw a cross to the shoulder (not the ear, mind you). Better yet, try and throw two in a row. Just because you can power shots into legs, hips, or a widely-exposed arm doesn't mean you can fight with this combo in any sort of really effective manner. It's not your fault, it's just the physics of the situation. Nobody could do this effectively (at least, nobody in the game today, or that I've ever met or heard of).

Third, because I'm equally certain that you're going to try this anyway, come to events. Big ones. Make it east, when you can, to Spring Wars and Geddon and Oktoberfest. Go to Chaos, and whatever other big events are out west. Spar everybody, especially the good fighters. If you can use this combo to beat on noobs in your home realm, then that's good, and can be a lot of fun. I'll do weird **** at my realm for fun, because I can. But if you can take this show on the road, and consistently beat really good fighters at national events, then I will eat my words, and owe you a second apology. Until you can start winning with this, however, and against real, talented opponents, I'm pretty certain that this is a horrible idea, and that somebody's going to get hurt.

Once again, not a reflection on you. I'm glad to see more real athletes in this game, and damned if I'll discourage innovation. Use what you've got; if you're strong and fast, then use it. Just... pick up smaller swords, or maybe a shield, huh?

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:26 pm**

Krimson Ninja wrote:I can swing so fast you can't even see the blades.

TROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Derian wrote:
Noik wrote:On a side note, Derian is Grapple capitalized for a reason?

Probably not. I didn't type these up by hand, but rather copy & pasted them, so it's persisting from an earlier version. It was probably one of those minor typos that didn't caught when we mass adopted the BoW in 2001/2002ish. There are a couple, but technically they can't be changed without a vote and it's really not worth it.

All of the Defined Terms are capitalized throughout the document, I believe. Stuff like Handle and Non-Striking Surface and Head and stuff. That's the way it should be, at least.

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:28 pm**

Arrakis wrote:
Derian wrote:
Noik wrote:On a side note, Derian is Grapple capitalized for a reason?

Probably not. I didn't type these up by hand, but rather copy & pasted them, so it's persisting from an earlier version. It was probably one of those minor typos that didn't caught when we mass adopted the BoW in 2001/2002ish. There are a couple, but technically they can't be changed without a vote and it's really not worth it.

All of the Defined Terms are capitalized throughout the document, I believe. Stuff like Handle and Non-Striking Surface and Head and stuff. That's the way it should be, at least.

I kind of see that now, thanks. Was already posting and saw it so figured I'd ask.

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:48 pm**

Oh. Indeed.

Arrakis is probably right.

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:35 pm**

Derian wrote:Arrakis is probably right.

Sigged.

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:48 pm**

Eh. These boards have enough of a rap for noob-hating internet douchebaggery. I'd rather accidentally give an earnest answer to a troll than accidentally squish the one clueless noob on the planet who can spell and knows some of the lingo. Sue me.

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:06 pm**

Noik wrote:Its legal to wear armor and shoot a bow.

Really? I didn't know that!!

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:16 pm**

Halbrust wrote:
Noik wrote:Its legal to wear armor and shoot a bow.

Really? I didn't know that!!

...sarcasm? god i hope so..

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:30 pm**

there have been few, very few, that can wield extra ( 44") long blues florentine effectively, reds are just larger blues at this point. i have never seen it, or heard of it. i would love to fight anyone that claims they are effective with it, and see what the fuss is a'boot.

generally when a newer person comes up with some ultimate distruction force power weapn combo, it is...
A. against the rules in some way, ie, tonfa, madu, whip, or other such idea
B. they fight other minimal skilled fighters, that at the momant dont see the way to deal with said combo, first event usually leads to some revelations.
C. a goof ball, someone trying to be the smartest retard in the room. dont be that guy.

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:33 pm**

I saw one fairly skilled person using a short blue and min red combo, but he ended up droping the blue halfway through to just red through opponent's shields...

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:46 pm**

Just out of curiosity, are you considering wearing leather armor with scorpion motifs?
And you may want to consider a back shield, I've heard they're pretty awesome for this style. Makes you * near bulletproof.

(Warning: Very few people will actually get this joke anymore.)

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:27 pm**

scorpion king.......?

Posted: **Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:43 pm**

I got it.

Btw, nobody has even come up with what I think is the worst reason to use this combo: safety. You know how many head shots are thrown by precise fighters who shoulder pop? Now take a heavier red and drop it into the single hand of a newb, who has to deal with two of them at once.

You can't intimidate me, you're complete lack of safety scares me ****.

Posted: **Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:08 am**

Yeah I see what you mean, I am taller so I would have a better chance of hitting shorter people higher, but the way I fight most of my hits are low torso to high leg shots, I’m not trying to * any one off I’m just trying to bring something new to the table.

Posted: **Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:50 am**

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45439177@N06/4170677683/
I don't know if any one cares but these are my reds :/ (maybe you won't hate me as much ha ha)

Posted: **Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:12 am**

Have you ever even tried to fight a competent fighter with this style? You're going to lose. Constantly. Let me guess, your big * shot is the scissor-from-both-sides double swing, huh? Shield block+sword block+stab you in the * = you're dead. Every time.

Just grab one of those reds two handed, add a 24" round backshield, and learn to fight minired correctly. You will be much deadlier on the field.

Posted: **Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:56 am**

yeah, if someone came at me with two min reds i would have to say a * stabbing would be in order

then i would fire mah lazorz all over you

Posted: **Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:52 am**

If this guy is for real, he'll learn better, or quit. Until he figures out by himself why the entire consensus of helpful vets on the board assumed this was a joke, no amount of logical persuasion is going to change anything.

Like I said, bro, come to events. Hell, come find me at any big midwest event. I'll do my best to work with you on this. I'll even promise not to stab you in the junk.

And now this thread has reached it's conclusion. Thank you all, you're wonderful. Let's let this one die. Giggles had the right solution back in the first *' reply.

Posted: **Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:14 pm**

Teh Mel wrote:Just out of curiosity, are you considering wearing leather armor with scorpion motifs?
And you may want to consider a back shield, I've heard they're pretty awesome for this style. Makes you * near bulletproof.

(Warning: Very few people will actually get this joke anymore.)

Lol. First thing I thought of when I saw the thread too, Mel.

Posted: **Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:02 pm**

tl;dr
If your name is not Zwolf, don't dual wield reds.

Belegarth

Dual Wielding 53" reds

Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds

Re: Dual Wielding 53" reds