Belegarth

Even though I already have garb, the tunic I made is a piece of crap, I don't want to ruin the kilt I've been fighting in, and I'm pretty much going barefoot. So, I want some better garb, how much would a simple tunic with a bit of customization as well as a pair of really simple pants run me?

As far as details go, just a simple pair of black pants and a tunic that is Black/White/Purple (Mainly black and white, the purple is dark enough to be black, but easily visible as purple from a distance) with my insignia embroidered on the back.

Pretty much, for now, I just need a price estimation then I can start thinking of designs, getting a picture of my insignia on here, and getting measurements for if I ask anybody to make it for me.

Thanks,
-Kraesh

For your pants....
If you got a dress that fits you, this would help http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=17925.0

You may misinterpret as much as you want

I'm male. I don't have any dresses at all.

-Kraesh

Goto a thrift store lol.

Hunnerd bucks for both, if you don't want particular fabrics.

A simple tunic would run about $20...pants would be about $20-$25 also. You will probably have better luck finding someone who can paint the symbol on instead of having it embroidered as the paint would be much cheaper....unless you know someone who can do embroidery for you

What does your insignia look like?

It's hard to describe, I'll see if I can get a picture up within the next couple days.

-Kraesh

Juniper stay undercutting folks.

Arrakis wrote:Juniper stay undercutting folks.

better undercutting than gouging.

You trying to say something, genericelt?

Arrakis wrote:Juniper stay undercutting folks.

Aegis wrote:

Arrakis wrote:Juniper stay undercutting folks.

better undercutting than gouging.

Arrakis wrote:You trying to say something, genericelt?

Oh jeez, general mayhem people. You two just don't get along very well do you?

Arrakis wrote:You trying to say something, genericelt?

I'm here to fight. Not look pretty
I'd say I probably * in his cheerios but I'm not even close to the only person he's * off, he needs to take a serious look at how he responds to people

but I won't derail the thread anymore

Beck wrote:

Arrakis wrote:Juniper stay undercutting folks.

Aegis wrote:

Arrakis wrote:Juniper stay undercutting folks.

better undercutting than gouging.

Arrakis wrote:You trying to say something, genericelt?

Oh jeez, general mayhem people. You two just don't get along very well do you?

no, aegis dosnt tend to get along with dumb people. just saying.

Didn't mean to start a cyber fight...lol...I just posted the price I can make them for. My quality isn't top of the line, mind you, but it doesn't cost an arm and a leg either. I know most people can't afford to drop a bunch of money on garb (I know I can't) so I make my stuff a little cheaper so that it is more easily affordable for some.

*shrugs*

Sorry if my pricing makes you unhappy Arrakis but that's life.

I dont think Arrakis is dumb, far from it.
Just doesnt choose to phrase his opinions on the internet politely, and therefore they come off as attacks. In a Sport where we have ALOT of Type A personalities, that can be a fatal flaw.

I have a similar problem with Sarcasm, it doesnt work well on the internet, or in person(crap). Im also bad at keeping my mouth shut. I firmly believe in Brutal Honesty, even if it hurts.and I believe if you dont know about a problem you cant fix it and if no one tells you, you probably dont know. I like giving the ugly baby speech. Dude, your baby is ugly.

That being said. I would clarify the quality of the garments, and let the consumer choose, rather than just attack. But by no means does the first person to respond have all rights to sell to that person, its only rude to self advertise in someone elses selling thread.

I'd just like to see garbers pay themselves more than $3/hour to stitch garb, after overhead, maintenance on their machines, thread, fabric, and pattern alteration costs/time.

Juniper Wynd wrote:What does your insignia look like?

Here's my insignia, as seen on the side of my spearhead, albeit a dirty spearhead, but a spearhead nonetheless.



The purple sharpee that I drew it with originally bled through the cloth tape so I traced the framework with a black sharpee. So, no, it doesn't really look all ghostly like that.

Arrakis wrote:I'd just like to see garbers pay themselves more than $3/hour to stitch garb, after overhead, maintenance on their machines, thread, fabric, and pattern alteration costs/time.

Agreed

Hmmm, I couldn't do the embroidery myself...I dont have the uber fancy kinda that allows me to scan the stuff in (not yet anyway...lol)




As far as pricing and such goes in concern to what Arrakis said...I realize that I am not making much per hour after all is said and done but what it comes down to (for me) is that I ~enjoy~ sewing garb. I love making the items and seeing people in them that the money part is kind of secondary to me. I mean, sure, I like making good money too but that's not why I make the garb.

It takes me maybe an hour to make a tunic and less than that for easy pants so the time means very little to me (and I'm a stay at home mom so I have plenty of time..lol). Cost of fabric is counted in with the price of the item but I am able to get my fabric very cheap so I pass that on to the person buying the item from me. Maintenance is also kind of a nil point since the machine I use is a Brother..they are like the Ford of sewing machines..lol. Also, my quality isn't 5 star and I don't make it out to be either.

If you can make nicer garb and get the price you ask then kudos for you, seriously. But if I am happy with the amount I make on the items and the customer is happy then isn't that what matters?

The point hes trying to make is not that you are unhappy with the amount you are making, but that the prices you are charging undercut everyone else, making it nearly impossible for anyone to actually charge get what the work is worth. It has little to do with your quality, because of how much you undercut, that most newbs (and some vets) now expect that price for any garb because they don't understand the value and work that goes into it.

This is precisely why I got out of garb making, far too much undercutting that it wasn't worth my time. (Not by just you, in the market in general. )

It is very reasonable to enjoy making garb. If I didn't I wouldn't spend time doing it.

All of the reasons encountered in the preceding posts contribute to why I rarely make very simple or very plain garb and primarily do only semi-custom stuff with applique and piecework, typically in linen, wool, linen/cotton blends, or Onsaburg. I doubt I'd have as many local sales if I were nearest a Belegarth Realm instead of a Dag chapter for that reason.

Anyway, I'm not saying you should raise your prices. It's good for the sport to have a continually-producing entry-level garb seller selling cheap starter garb. *shrug* I guess I just need to advertise better.

If she and her client decide that it is a fair price, then it is, and that should be the end of it. Good for her if she can afford to do it for her prices.

I personally don't use anything i can't make myself within reason, but if i were to ever buy garb...i would buy from her.

kadis wrote:If she and her client decide that it is a fair price, then it is, and that should be the end of it. Good for her if she can afford to do it for her prices.

Agreed, just explaining where the confusion was.

Arrakis do you have some pics of work. I am a vet who does not mind paying for quality. I tend to by my stuff at renfairs where I can see the quality, but I would rather give my money to someone in Belegarth.

Ilariia Bulochnika wrote:The point hes trying to make is not that you are unhappy with the amount you are making, but that the prices you are charging undercut everyone else, making it nearly impossible for anyone to actually charge get what the work is worth. It has little to do with your quality, because of how much you undercut, that most newbs (and some vets) now expect that price for any garb because they don't understand the value and work that goes into it.

This is precisely why I got out of garb making, far too much undercutting that it wasn't worth my time. (Not by just you, in the market in general. )

I totally understand the point and it is a good point, no argument there. I suppose the buyers just need to understand that it is the same difference between Wal-Mart quality/price and Prada quality/price. You get what you pay for and I try to let my customers know that ahead of time.

Undercutting sucks.

I charge $10 an hour for labor, which is a god damned steal since the equipment I've got makes me worthy of an honest tailor business. But, I like fighters and I like pretty garb. I like fighters to have pretty garb because it makes the sport better.

I can do the basic tabard for $25 with serging and quality fabrics (twill most likely).

The embroidery will cost you around $15 to $20 depending on how difficult it is for me to digitize the thing. It doesn't look terribly difficult. Right now completion and delivery times are falling around 2 weeks.

The pants would be another $25-$30 (depending on the amount of fabric needed). I reinforce all seams and can add extra enforcement in the knee area if you have the tendency to rip those out. It happens. All seams on the pants are serged (that means I use 4 threads to sew the edges to keep them from raveling as well as keeping seams from ripping out).

Interested? Send me a pm.

Ilariia - Every time I come to the board you have a new name. Just an observation lol.

faline wrote:Ilariia - Every time I come to the board you have a new name. Just an observation lol.

LOL sorry!

I'm trying to confuse the ninjas.

This one is it (SCA reasons), and its close enough to Alleria it brought everything full circle.

but you didn't work donut in.

I understand confusing the ninjas. It's a worthy goal. They sure do need confusing sometimes.

Peregrine wrote:but you didn't work donut in.

Oh yes I did! "Bulochnika" roughly means "the Baker"

Ilariia Bulochnika wrote:

Peregrine wrote:but you didn't work donut in.

Oh yes I did! "Bulochnika" roughly means "the Baker"

That is awsome!!

faline wrote:Undercutting sucks.

I charge $10 an hour for labor, which is a god damned steal since the equipment I've got makes me worthy of an honest tailor business. But, I like fighters and I like pretty garb. I like fighters to have pretty garb because it makes the sport better.

I can do the basic tabard for $25 with serging and quality fabrics (twill most likely).

The embroidery will cost you around $15 to $20 depending on how difficult it is for me to digitize the thing. It doesn't look terribly difficult. Right now completion and delivery times are falling around 2 weeks.

The pants would be another $25-$30 (depending on the amount of fabric needed). I reinforce all seams and can add extra enforcement in the knee area if you have the tendency to rip those out. It happens. All seams on the pants are serged (that means I use 4 threads to sew the edges to keep them from raveling as well as keeping seams from ripping out).

Interested? Send me a pm.

Ilariia - Every time I come to the board you have a new name. Just an observation lol.

I'll consider it. Right now I don't have much money, but once a few more weapon orders come in I should have enough.

Thanks,
-Kraesh

Peregrine wrote:Arrakis do you have some pics of work. I am a vet who does not mind paying for quality. I tend to by my stuff at renfairs where I can see the quality, but I would rather give my money to someone in Belegarth.

P-to-the-M'd.

thanks

faline wrote:depending on how difficult it is for me to digitize the thing. It doesn't look terribly difficult.

Now I'm not my mom (shocking!) but I've been talking to her a lot about embroidery stuff, being that she's my mom and loves me enough to charge me next to nothing or nothing for embroidery, but from what she's told me that image actually seems like it would garbage to try and digitize. Am I crazy? I mean, sure, it's 2 colors in general, but the black outline is feint and the purple bleed certainly won't help at all. Right?

BJ (heh heh),

In it's current image state, yes, it would be a * to digitize. However, using the powers of photoshop to improve the image and bring out the necessary details, it can be made to be less *.

Still a good bit of work, but doable.

What Ilariia said.

The Image would take about 15 minutes to clean up in photoshop utilizing the wonders of vector art and then digitized, which takes about 5 minutes. A quick test sew for quality control then up and running.

Creating Embroidery files isn't really hard as long as a person understands the limitations of digitizing software and how to feed it the best image for the job. The software is expensive as all get-up (almost as much as the cost of my car in fact) but it's powerful, in the right hands.

The cost is high because thread and stabilizer are expensive. And it DOES take a fair deal of talent to ensure a centered design that doesn't pucker as to not ruin the perfectly good tabard that was just created.

So, I've been thinking. What I want to do is get a decent (not totally amazing) simple white tunic as well as a good pair of black garb pants (probably something that is aimed toward durability rather than looks). Aside from those I'm probably going to see about getting a purple and white tabard with the insignia embroydered in black. I think I'll want the tabard to be significantly higher in quality than the pants and tunic.

This way the pants and tunic will be a constant and when I am supposed to be in garb I'll suit up in my tabard, or, in the even that I actually get off my butt and get some decent leather and make it, I could simply take the tabard off and get all armored up in a suit of really nice leather armor that I've been dreaming up for years now to fit my character.

On another note. The only reason the insignia on the spearhead is purple is because my colors are black, white, and purple. I already had the white on the head and black on the haft and striking surface so I did the insignia in purple (to be honest I didn't expect the sharpee to leek). SO, to make it easier to see what the insignia is more supposed to look like I did a good stenciling (the sharp corners are a bit spotty) and scanned it (now that my dad has set up the printer whereas it was still in the box when I provided the last picture.

So, for ease of use:

Pm me if you're ready to start talking numbers.

Ilariia Bulochnika wrote:The point hes trying to make is not that you are unhappy with the amount you are making, but that the prices you are charging undercut everyone else, making it nearly impossible for anyone to actually charge get what the work is worth. It has little to do with your quality, because of how much you undercut, that most newbs (and some vets) now expect that price for any garb because they don't understand the value and work that goes into it.

This is precisely why I got out of garb making, far too much undercutting that it wasn't worth my time. (Not by just you, in the market in general. )
emphasis mine

Arrakis wrote:It is very reasonable to enjoy making garb. If I didn't I wouldn't spend time doing it.

All of the reasons encountered in the preceding posts contribute to why I rarely make very simple or very plain garb and primarily do only semi-custom stuff with applique and piecework, typically in linen, wool, linen/cotton blends, or Onsaburg. I doubt I'd have as many local sales if I were nearest a Belegarth Realm instead of a Dag chapter for that reason.

Anyway, I'm not saying you should raise your prices. It's good for the sport to have a continually-producing entry-level garb seller selling cheap starter garb. *shrug* I guess I just need to advertise better.
emphasis mine

faline wrote:Undercutting sucks.

I charge $10 an hour for labor, which is a god damned steal since the equipment I've got makes me worthy of an honest tailor business. But, I like fighters and I like pretty garb. I like fighters to have pretty garb because it makes the sport better.

I can do the basic tabard for $25 with serging and quality fabrics (twill most likely).

The embroidery will cost you around $15 to $20 depending on how difficult it is for me to digitize the thing. It doesn't look terribly difficult. Right now completion and delivery times are falling around 2 weeks.

The pants would be another $25-$30 (depending on the amount of fabric needed). I reinforce all seams and can add extra enforcement in the knee area if you have the tendency to rip those out. It happens. All seams on the pants are serged (that means I use 4 threads to sew the edges to keep them from raveling as well as keeping seams from ripping out).
emphasis mine

As my economics professor used to sing (to the tune of Farmer in the Dell: "The Market sets the price. The Market sets the price. La dee da dee da dee da. The Market sets the price."

In an unregulated market (which is what the Bel garb market is), people will be allowed to and some will be successful at undercutting their competitors. Usually, this is done either as a means to get their business going by flooding the market with their cheap product, or because they realize that the quality of their product is not worth a higher price, so to stay viable they maintain low prices, or because they wish to run their competitors out of business so as to obtain a monopoly by flooding the market with their cheap product.

However, nature seeks balance, and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, etc. etc. and if a garb manufacturer continues to sell at low prices they run the risk of becoming inundated with requests to the point that they must turn business away. This outcome will create an opening for additional garb makers who can charge what they want as long as the rejected customers and/or customers who have placed an order and are not willing to wait for it are willing to pay it. These new garb makers can attempt to undercut their current competition or charge a higher price with a captive consumer base. Greed and Realization of Supply/Demand are the dichotomy of governing forces at work.

It may suck, but without market regulations (of which there should be none in this case) people will charge what people are willing to pay for widely varying quality in a niche market, and vice versa.

Thank you all for the offers. I actually managed to find a more close-to-home tailor and ended up having Baucchus and Elwrath hook me up. I'll try too post pictures soon just for fun. YAY! I HAVE GARB!!!

-Kraesh

PS. I know, super necro post. But I'm just excited that I have good garb! Again, YAY!