Belegarth

Howdy. I am an ex-amtgarder (played about 5 years, quit in 2008) and I have the urge to swing foam again - but not in amtgard. Long story short, I found my local group (Boise) and will be trying to get my work schedule arranged so I can attend.

I have done quite a bit of research/lurking, and realized I need to make some new swords (plus the loaners they have are beastly heavy and my girly man arms can't handle it). I ripped off my old noodle (those things lasted 2 years when they were in service and have been sitting in my shed ever since I quit... goodbye memories /sniffles) and inspected my core. They are pretty thick golf shaft cores 30" in length. Ok, so I need 12 ounces of weight, fine.

Here's what I did - and I am sure some of you are going to tell me how terrible of a job I did - and that's fine. That's why I am here:

I sanded the cores to rough them up and remove the glossy finish.
Cut out 2 pieces of blue camp foam (standard stuff from what I've gathered) into the shape of my blade (2.75 inches across so the tip is >2.5") and cut a slightly undersized channel into them that matches the taper of the shaft (dremel for the win).
I dapped the shaft/foam and applied it per instructions, laying the shaft in the channels and snadwhiching it between the two pieces. I then cut out two more "blades" and dapped them on so I am now 4 layers of blue foam thick. The face of my stricking edge is about 1.75". I then cut out 2 more pieces of foam and dapped them to both striking edges so it hit a little softer and covered up the "sandwhich" look of my stricking edge. I then tapered the bottom the the blade and spiral wrapped it in strapping tape onto the shaft for added security (not sure if this was necessary as I couldn't even force the blade to twist around the shaft).

I will weight the handle/pommel accordingly (need 4 oz's and I have some buffer tube weights laying around). I had my wife beat on me with it and baseball swing me multiple times with no pain. I told her to go at it as hard as she can and try and break it - rather have it break on me than someone at the field and it held up fine and she swings hard (ex rock climber with some muscle). What I want to know I guess is how does this build sound the the experts here? I've read some folks swear by golf shaft, others say it snaps too easily - is there a definitive answer to this? Potential problems I see is the foam breaking down around the shaft maybe...? Snapping core...? Does Dap glue "break down" or come apart? Will my layers of foam ever separate?

Sorry for the long post but I just want to be prepared and not burden my local group with having to borrow gear. Thanks!

1. The Build: I'm not quite understanding how you're explaining your build process. Pics?

2. Is golf shaft a good core?: Yes and No. It depends. Golf shafts vary in quality, just like any other piece of sporting equipment. When people talk about getting good golf shafts, they're talking about the carbon fiber ones. These are light and durable, and comparable to Kitespar. They are less durable than typical fiberglass, but at blue-sword length, assuming you have a good core, you should be fine. The only way to know, really, is to use it.

3. Foam breaks down more quickly when you're playing full contact, but that doesn't mean you'll be putting a new blade on every weekend. The longevity of your weapon depends entirely on how hard you hit, how often you fight, how well you fight (not tip fighting, solid shots on the blade, not turning flat, etc.), how the weapon is constructed, and how you treat your gear (proper storage, etc.). An all blue foam sword won't last as long, typically, as more modern, progressive density tech, but it's still a decent weapon. My swords last me anywhere from 3-12 months (4#/2# build), depending on how often I'm hitting the field, but your results may vary.

4. DAP doesn't really "break down" so much as the bonds become compromised. Most often , you're going to see this in the form of core detachment, where the blade becomes detached from the core, typically at the tip. This occurs due to a multitude of reasons, but most often it occurs with fighters who tip fight a lot, and with weapons that did not have enough adhesive put on the core and the base layer. The base layer on a round core has the least amount of surface area to adhere to, so it's especially important that every last bit of it is covered well in DAP to ensure a good bond. Otherwise, DAP is waterproof, and long lasting. Just make sure you follow the instructions on the can, make sure you're using the red can, and make sure you cover all surfaces, but don't leave puddles.

4. Foam layers only really separate if you don't glue them together well. Foamsmithing requires time and patience. A rushed weapon is a doomed weapon.


I hope I answered some of your questions satisfactorily. Again, if you could post pics, it would help me understand how you constructed it. If you have any other questions, please post 'em, and we'll try and give you an answer.

-Thurat-

Oh man thanks for the answers. It helps alot. I definitely didn't rush this - it took almost 3 hours from design to where it is now (not even complete). I was kind of surprised how long it took compared to the old amtgard swords. Anyway, here is a link to the pictures I took.

http://imgur.com/a/edqMM#0

Right now it's coming in at 7.6 ounces * 32" long x 1.75" blade width x 4" non-blade (flat) width. Non-stabbing tip, just taped it for some added reinforcement and the blade has no tape, just the flat part for some durability.

So you can see the handle goes right up the middle - I sandwiched it between 2 pieces of foam that had matching channels cut for the taper (this way the foam laid flat against each other instead of a round hump where the shaft is). It was dapp'ed in as well. Then 1 more layer on either side, then the pieces cut for the "blade."

Im not entirely understanding how you boxed the weapon.

As an ex-Amtgard fighter myself, you will have to relearn how to craft for the most part.

My usual method is boxing the core, which is 4 strips of blue measured and cut to dap to the core forming a box. Capping the tip, or coining, then striking surface and stabbing tip.

just remember to be paitent. Coat the foam with dap, wipe off excess, let it sit for a few then apply. I have found his method will cause a strong bond instantly.

Your weapon looks good, but as i stated earlier i cant see the core and couldnt really follow your described methods. You can also find all sorts of guides on the geddon, which is linked all over these forums

I didn't "box" it per se. I took two pieces of blue foam cut to the shape of the blade. I then cut a channel out of each for the core to rest in. I then dapped the channels/core and glue'ed them together, with the core in the middle channel.

Check this out, maybe it'll help: http://i.imgur.com/uvbahYc.jpg?1

Black bit is the core. So I put the core in one channel, then set the other blue piece on top - a "core sandwich" if you will.

Oh, one more burning quesiton: I have an all foam strap shield (don't know the exact type, but it's quite dense) that I used for years. Is it okay if the leather strapping goes through to the front? No studs or anything, just flat leather for the arm strap and grip. The rules are slightly ambiguous on the subject ...

DeadEwok wrote:Oh, one more burning quesiton: I have an all foam strap shield (don't know the exact type, but it's quite dense) that I used for years. Is it okay if the leather strapping goes through to the front? No studs or anything, just flat leather for the arm strap and grip. The rules are slightly ambiguous on the subject ...

While I'm not sure if it's expressly illegal, I'm fairly certain that would fail virtually anywhere using the Belegarth or Dagorhir ruleset. If you add a layer of camp pad to the face to cover that up, though, I'm sure it'd be perfectly fine.

Matthias - Dun Abhon wrote:

DeadEwok wrote:Oh, one more burning quesiton: I have an all foam strap shield (don't know the exact type, but it's quite dense) that I used for years. Is it okay if the leather strapping goes through to the front? No studs or anything, just flat leather for the arm strap and grip. The rules are slightly ambiguous on the subject ...

While I'm not sure if it's expressly illegal, I'm fairly certain that would fail virtually anywhere using the Belegarth or Dagorhir ruleset. If you add a layer of camp pad to the face to cover that up, though, I'm sure it'd be perfectly fine.

Great thanks! Easy enough fix.

You could also dig out a small channel for the straps to run through, and then cover them with a thin layer of fun foam or something. Might work; haven't done it myself.

Don't sword-block a red with gold-shaft or be willing to say good bye to it.
Otherwise it looks great and should be fine? I get some of the better Amtgarders from my local Kingdom switching sides to our game and they love learning the new tech.

Sandwich style works for a while... Nathir used to make swords in the same style but they only lasted him a few months.... He hit real hard and we fought 5-6 days a week...
Let us know how long they hold up for