Belegarth

In kind of a response to How Hard Is Hard Enough topic, I think that what people wish the rules for what constitute as a hit and how they actually interpret them are two different things. When Eriador realms first started making appearances at events, our members were often critisized for rhino-hiding. Now, because I wasn't there I cant say for sure if they were or were not taking there hits, but I can claim to know that these fighters were very good at taking their hits at our practices. Reason for this is because before we were introduced to the main body of fighting outside our realms, our only measure was in the BoW as "sufficient force". When our members came back from their first event, all they would say is, take your hit whether its extremely light or not. Because its the worst thing at an event to be labled a rhino-hider and have people not like you, especially when you dont know anyone. Even know, we tell eveyone going to their first big event to take every hit and never call glancing or light.
So people can say, "oh yeah, has to hit with a decent force" but the truth is, you'll get just as * as the next guy if someone doesn't take a hit that you think is suffient when truth is your fighting with a weapon made out of probably the lightest thing possible on a guy with armour and you still expect him to take every single tap. And if he/she doesn't take the hit then I feel sorry for that person because we go and tell our friends that this punk isn't taking their hits.

Hitting hard enough is a separate issue from what core materials are used. While I'm guessing you're trying to argue against "ultra-lights", there are other cores which can be used to make heavy enough weapons.

I can make an Ultra light PVC weapon if i realy wanted to. so that arguement is shot. Im against this 100% from the fact of i dont build my weapons out of fiberglass just for the weight, but the fact the i crack pvc. Out of 4 pvc weapons ive ever made 3 of them have cracked. the only one left is one that i hardly use and when i do im very delcate on it because its pretty.

Bodhi wrote:So people can say, "oh yeah, has to hit with a decent force" but the truth is, you'll get just as * as the next guy if someone doesn't take a hit that you think is suffient when truth is your fighting with a weapon made out of probably the lightest thing possible on a guy with armour and you still expect him to take every single tap. And if he/she doesn't take the hit then I feel sorry for that person because we go and tell our friends that this punk isn't taking their hits.

I can definitely identify with this kind of situation, but give those angry people some credit. Not all of them are able to completely wail on someone with force enough to cause excessive bruising.

I'm a small guy, in a muscular sense. I'm 5'10" and a mere 158 lbs. I'm a freaking stick [practically two-dimensional! ]. I fight using [heh heh] kitespar-cored longswords. There are times where it's understandable that someone doesn't consider what I think to be a "valid hit" [which is me hitting them pretty hard on my own gauge; hard enough to definitely feel, armor or no, but much lighter than a certain few people in my realm like Alcon, Falcor, or Peter; not to name names or anything ]. I consider Belegarth to be a very fun game, but not an uber-competitive kill-them-at-any-cost-and-make-them-cry-before-they-fall sport.
Still kinda bugs me when people refuse to take my hits on a repeated basis, though.

Tyrael,

While I understand your frustration, it sounds like you are honest enough with yourself to see that you are at least part of the cause of the problems you are having. So there are two things that you can do to improve your hit delivery:

1) Go to the gym and use free-weights and nautilus machines to build up your arms and shoulders. While you are a skinny fart, you can at least bulk up your upper body to help deliver stronger blows. Don't have access to a gym? Then buy or borrow some cheap barbells or at worst get two plastic gallon jugs filled with water and use them as weights. Push-ups and pull-ups/curl-ups are cheap exercises that need no equipment. Mix up the exercises to use all of your arm and shoulder muscles: Flys, curls, military-press, bench-press, laterals and anything else you can think up.

2) Build or borrow a substantially heavier sword to practice with. This is an ancient Roman legionary training trick - they practiced with double weight gladius and shield to strengthen themselves before battles. When you go out to fight with your lighter weapon, you'll instinctively swing a little harder and faster, as well as have more endurance.

3) Introduce more protein into your diet to take advantage of this extra exercise, to help allow your body to build muscle mass. Extra carbs on the day of the fight don't hurt either.

Tyrael, I know where you are coming from. I'm 6' 153lbs.

Like Kyrax said, work on your upper body strength to help swing a little harder. I have NEVER used weights to gain muscle for more than a week (wasn't worth it to me). I HAVE been a gymnast for 14 years, so I was used to pushups, pull-ups, etc. I also tone my muscles with light weights. I do LOTS of reps with a low amount of weight. Switching muscles and making muscles work together (kind of complex) has helped me gain the force I need to get hits that are of sufficent force on most people.

~?~

Edit in: If you have questions about the muscles working together or switching muscles, let me know and I'll see if I can explain by typing.
~Stash~

^_^; Um, guys? I've been doing 50 push-ups and 100 crunches every-other night for the past two years. It's not that I'm uber-weak or anything; it's just that I'm not as strong and don't have as much weight behind me as many guys in Tir Asleen. My metabolism is so fast with everything that I've tried to gain weight in many, many, MANY ways (including the whole protein supplement thing; the guys at the fitness store in my hometown know me by name ), but they just don't work.

I dunno... although my lack of weight to throw around is part of the problem, there are a few members who get so caught up in the fight that they "forget" to take hits. I've even had one member say that I hit his leg after the fight was over, but did that stop him from dashing across the field, killing most of my team? Nooooo. His excuse: He thought I was dead.

I am no fan of light weapons, but I would be against requiring weapons to have a specific type of core.

Tyrael, a bit more advice. Try making your weapons heavier and softer, yes SOFTER. A thin layer (1/4") of open cell foam on the striking surface will do wonders. A softer weapon stays in contact with a target longer and does not bounce as much. This lets the target feel the hit more. I am not talking total poof here, just a bit of something to take away the bounce.

To more or less put more clerity on my previous post, I dont want to have to require a certain kind of core and I would never personally vote for it. What this really all was is two Q's. Would you all like it if swords weighed at least so much in weight to add a little more reality to the sport? And, more concerning with a topic in the rules section that I cant post in, it was brought up about what is considered a hit? My comment is simply that its an unanswerable question due biased fighters because we cant feel the hit we deliver on someone else and are therefore not very trusting with the other persons judgement and of course armour. I love armour and I will always like to be able to wear it. Well, thats really all I guess.

IT sounds like the little guys or girls are being cut short. Just because they aren't as big as the rest of us. I think if they are able to get to your body unchecked then the shot should pretty much be taken. but then on the other hand you've got the cheater sticks that are like swinging air. but then what is to stop people from placing padding under thier armor ( like they did in real life) then almost any shot can't be felt, unless a bigger guy cranks one. Then you've got people *' about they hit too hard. I think it's gonna be * near impossisble to make a rule of what exactly suffenct force is. what may be suffenct to a 120lb 16 year old, and what suffenct force is to a 220 lb 30 year old in armor is not going to be anywhere close to the same

Fenris wrote: what may be suffenct to a 120lb 16 year old, and what suffenct force is to a 220 lb 30 year old in armor is not going to be anywhere close to the same

As it should be, in my opinion. If the hit doesn't feel like it could concievably disable your arm, then it shouldnt' disable your arm. Everyone is going to have a different feel for this, just like some guys could take harder hits than others with real weapons.

In the other How Hard... post, Brutus very nicly put realism aside. I think we shoud leave it there. This is nothing like real life or real weapons.
I'm behind Brutus and Keggs definition of sufficient 100%. All these "you hit too hard" *'s need to either leather up or get the hell out. Go play Amtguard. I fell in love with this SPORT because it's full contact. People hit me hard, real hard, with safe weapons. I knew right then this was the place for me. Up until then I was playing sissy GAMES like amptguard with "light contact" style combat. Don't get me wrong, the roleplay and night fighting in broken terrain can only safely be done in light combat. And that part of those games was kind of fun. But not like what we do in Belegarth.
I dont think there is any reason to swing uncontrolably hard. Nor do I think those "baseball" style swings are nesassary. They usually cause you to over-rotate and then you die. But everyone knows I hit hard and so do my guys, the ones who pay attention anyway. I take light hits out of courtesy.
It feels better to be killed by some one who really gets you with a good solid shot. I like the feeling of knowing "that last shot would have cut me in half", when I die. It's alot better than thinking "did that hit me or was that just the guy hitting my baggy shirt?"
As for cores, my weapons weight about as much as the pvc equivalents, if the pvc ones were made by me, also. But, I use solid fiberglass. I never make anything but clubs out pf pvc because it breaks. And it's too big around so your weapons are always fat and ugly.
I do think that we should have a minimium weapon weight of 16 ounces per 24" on everything but ranged weapons. This would end alot of these types of debates.
FB

Forkbeard wrote:All these "you hit too hard" *'s need to either leather up or get the hell out. Go play Amtguard. I fell in love with this SPORT because it's full contact. People he me hard, real hard, with safe weapons. I knew right then this was the place for me. Up until then I was playing sissy GAMES like amptguard with "light contact" style combat.

If you want to cause pain, go join SCA. Not all of us are here to hurt others.

Tyrael wrote:

Forkbeard wrote:All these "you hit too hard" *'s need to either leather up or get the hell out. Go play Amtguard. I fell in love with this SPORT because it's full contact. People he me hard, real hard, with safe weapons. I knew right then this was the place for me. Up until then I was playing sissy GAMES like amptguard with "light contact" style combat.

If you want to cause pain, go join SCA. Not all of us are here to hurt others.

There are two problems with your statement Tyrael.

In the SCA you don't try and cause eachother pain. This is rather trivial.

Forkbeard never said he wanted to HURT people nor did he say anyone should. In fact his statement "People he me hard, real hard, with safe weapons." shows that he wants SAFE things.

Tyrael wrote:If you want to cause pain, go join SCA. Not all of us are here to hurt others.

You participate in a full contact sport, you should be expecting to be hurt.

Look Tyrael I know that maybe you dont like to be hit hard... and maybe that your hits are softer than what some people are used to, but you really dont have any room for arguement. As Forkbeard put it, if you dont like the hard hits dont play. And as Akbar points out everytime "This aint no tap game." if I know the person has felt my hit because of a body feint or facial expression then not take the hit, or my hits are two light is two different things. And easy trick to making people take hits is to hit harder in places that will hurt more. A lot of times I will connect a shot... but then reconsider it and tell the person not to take it because in reality their arm would have just had a bruise from my sword, it is not enought to cause significant damage.

I take *every* hit. Light, hard, you name it. I think it both fosters good will in the game, and makes me try to fight more skillfully.

I also try to make this a full contact sport. I 'd much rather "die" in battle by a well-placed, hard shot than a couple of wrist flicked whip-sticks to both arms, but I take them both.

Tor Lynspedet wrote:I take *every* hit. Light, hard, you name it. I think it both fosters good will in the game, and makes me try to fight more skillfully.

I also try to make this a full contact sport. I 'd much rather "die" in battle by a well-placed, hard shot than a couple of wrist flicked whip-sticks to both arms, but I take them both.

I wholeheartedly agree with you there, Tor. For me, every hit counts, and I too would rather get hit in a fairly hard manner than take a tap and count it as death.

What I'm trying to say is that some people just need to learn moderation. I've seen some people, like Bhakdar, who hit exactly the same no matter who they're up against; whether they be the size of Cain [AKA Rudzok, or however you spell it; he's a beefy guy who could take any kind of hit easily enough], or a girl who's half MY size [and I'm not exactly a big guy]. I've seen many people go down and have trouble coming up because of people like that, people who refuse to monitor how hard they hit someone, despite how small or frail they may be (Tir Asleen has a number of people, mostly girls [though I'm not saying that girls are weaker in this sport than anyone else; it's just a trend I'm pointing out], who aren't the hard-core kinds of fighters you see at events; they're there for the fun of the game; when some people decide to hit them with a "solid" hit, they go down and have considerable trouble getting back up.

I've always found that it is not how frail or small they are but what your attitude is.

There could be several things that explain the situation.

Those hit need to suck it up, the guy used to hit softer and noone took the blows or that guy isn't using safe weapons. People shouldn't have to go easy on someone, no matter their size or sex and that is why there is a 16 age limit for events. Someone under 16 is the only solid reason you can offer to not fully whack someone, even then there is a reason they sign a waiver. I would like to add just because someone hits hard doesn't mean they aren't there just for enjoyment of the game.

Honestly, I wont hit a little girl as hard as I would hit say Forkbeard, but I would make sure my shots were hard enough to be felt and taken. i wouldn't hit her lightly, or just tap her, but I would not swing as hard as I would likely have to to make FB feel the hits through his armor and all. I agree, if you don't like how hard people hit...you should not play. Hell...I been KO'ed more than once from two handers to the back of the head, though only for a few seconds. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would hit FB harder, not the girl softer.

Now when I go elsewhere, I take almost anything that didn't just rub against me or obviously glance away. No body wants the lable of Rhino-hider. I have seen plenty of guys who wont take hits from opponents they don't deem worthy and all kinds of other crap, and I eventually just started beating those guys down till there was no doubt they were dead. Funny, pretty soon they started taking the lighter hit and all from me, guess they didn't want an Orc crouched on top of their shields, chopping wildly at them until they sceam they are dead.

See ya at Yestare there FB!!

Question:

If you have considerable strength behind your swing, are you always going to hit as hard as you can? If so, how can you make sure that any accidental headshots or shots to joints at strange angles won't seriously injure someone?

i.e. A big guy always swings as hard as he can using his PVC club/mace/what have you [heavy weapon, but not quite red; red hits are understandably hard, but red weapons are padded enough to cushion most of the blow]. He's almost always accurate in his shots, but accidents still happen, as they always do.
Are you going to tell the person in the hospital cot with a neck brace, "Hey, it's all fun and games!"?

This is what I'm talking about concerning moderation of shots. Yes, you can hit hard. That's all well and good. All I'm saying is that, while hitting hard is very much encouraged and this is a full-contact sport, accidents happen, and by controlling how hard you hit, you'll keep the accident numbers down more than they would if you just rely on full-on blows.

Our weapons are supposed to be able to hit you in the face with a baseball bat swing and not cause injury...i.e. broken noses, loss of teeth etc. If you can swing the weapon, and hit with it, no matter how hard you can swing, there still should be no injury. I agree, people should moderate their hits, and I think that most do. But like anything else accidents happen, and you've got to be willing to suck it up unless it's serious. Being hurt and being injured are to totally different things, I have been hurt nearly every time I fight, but never injured.

If it hurts a bit, suck it up, if you are injured, go to the hospital. Nobody is trying to hurt anyone intentionally, if they are they should be taken off the field.

Anyone who thinks our weapons can't cause injury is living in a dream world.

the only blows I consciously ignore are the light glancing BS blows... I too am a scrawny guy but rather than try to make myself hit harder I try to hit MORE, its hard to ignore multiple shots...
Generally I dont have a problem with others taking my shots either, hell in the DD season opener I had a guy take a light blow from me, IMO, because of the awesome draw effect I got on it...
great RP'd death...
so even that makes the strength of a hit subjective, based on who it is you are dealing with.

That dream used to be reality. Weapons were made and tested in such a way that if used correctly they would not injure when swung full force. Sure, any weapon used incorrectly would cause injury, such as hitting with a haft or hitting a head. Over the past 5 years or so more and more weapons have been passed on the minimum standard. Each year the safety standard gets less, the fighting gets lighter, what used to be considered barely safe is now ok, checkers test weapons more leniently, and people * about some people not taking hits and others hitting too hard. It has now become a dreamworld for the tap fighters and a nightmare for those who remember what this game is about.

Anybody who feels that if they swing at someone, male or female, big or small, and that the target will be injured by a full force swing has done nothing more than admit that their weapons are not safe for this game and that the heralds/marshals are not doing their job. If you are sitting around whining that people should not use full force, then step up and start checking weapons to make sure they are SAFE! Everyone should be able to use any weapon on anyone full out and not have to worry about a trip to the hospital. Instead of whining about how people should 'moderate' their swings all of the time, you should really start putting the blame where it is deserved... on all of those people who want the super light, rather hard, and very unsafe weapons to be considered safe and then get their friends the weapon checkers to allow them.

There is a difference between hurt and injured. Especially w/ the big weapons, when I take a big two handded swing yah some times the weaopn hurts a little bit, but that doesn't mean the weapon is going to injure me. The problem if the rule is that weapons shouln't hurt then the level of pain is different for everybody, but pretty much unless you have brittle bones or something the same swing from the same weapon shouldn't break ribs or any other bones.

Fingers. Fingers are small, and bendy. Bend a finger too much, and it breaks. If you hit really, really, * hard, and hit a finger (it happens!) you have a really, really, * good chance of breaking your friend's finger.

And I guess your friend should suck it up, and not be a big *, because this is a full contact sport, and you had no choice but to break his * fingers. Heaven forbid you should hold back a teensy bit, and bend something instead of break it. Why... showing restraint would make you the big *! (Not, let's say, mature or considerate.)

Valder wrote:Fingers. Fingers are small, and bendy. Bend a finger too much, and it breaks. If you hit really, really, * hard, and hit a finger (it happens!) you have a really, really, * good chance of breaking your friend's finger.

First, the hand is not a legal target while it is holding a weapon or shield. Second, safetry equipment can eliminite the vast majority of hand/finger injuries (such as leather gloves and baskets). Finally, 9 times out of 10 when I've seen a hand/fingers struck, it was due to a miscalculated block.

And I guess your friend should suck it up, and not be a big *, because this is a full contact sport, and you had no choice but to break his * fingers. Heaven forbid you should hold back a teensy bit, and bend something instead of break it. Why... showing restraint would make you the big *!

Or his friend could stop blocking with his hands and try deflecting with his shield, sword, or whatever. That's why I don't pitch a fit when my fingers get cracked. It was my fault.

(Not, let's say, mature or considerate.)

Yeah, it's so immature and unkind to swing hard in this game. However will we have a proper tea party after battle with broken fingers?

Get a clue before you start telling others to be mature.

Fair enough. Clue gotten. I'm still gonna swing at 90% instead of 105%. See you at the tea party.

First of all, When your fingers are sticking up and get jammed, bent or broken, it is most certainly YOUR own fault. And it's mine when it happens to them. Your only a * if you cry about it and try to blame me. An this doesn't mean I don't care about other people. I always check to see if anyone who gets injued by me or anyone on my feild is ok, though this does't happen often. Maybe twice ever, and once was it was me.
Second, **** you Tyreal, youv'e never met me, let alone fought against me. Don't run your mouth. I hit people as hard as is required for this sport. I don't hit them lightly, but I don't hit anyone as hard as I can. I said so in my post, buy sissy's like you never read the whole thing, you just pick something out and start crying about it. Look, if you can't hit hard enough to play this sport, then don't play.
Thirdly, hurt and injured are different things. If some one gets knocked down and "has a hrad time getting up", but gets up and fights on, they are NOT INJURED. Injuries require medical attention. These days more and more people get the two confused. People feel a little discomfort and cry like *, expecting their mommy to come running out with the bactene and bandaids. I say it's a result of bad parenting. A SAFE foam sword can injure my flesh no less than the flesh of a 110lb girl. It's safe for everyone.
With the deffinitions on HURT and INJURED out of the way, I say this...If your the kind of person who does't like to be hurt(not injured), and your going to cry every time you get a red mark from a sword, but you still just HAVE to play, then be an archer. Archers with no melee weapons don't get hurt very often. All you have to do is shoot arrows at the real fighters till one runs up and tags you with their weapon. (This is what I recomend for begining teenage girls in my group.)
FB

Well put FB.

Julian - it was well put 3 weeks ago, man. We have current threads too, you know.

-O

Arithon said: "Those hit need to suck it up, the guy used to hit softer and noone took the blows or that guy isn't using safe weapons."

One of those "small girls" Tyrael speaks of would be my girlfriend, Chibami. First off, she has no need to "suck it up", as I've seen her take shots that would put ANYONE down, and get back up a little while later to continue fighting. So don't think, Arithon, that she has any need to suck it up.

Ok, defensive mechanism disabled. On to actual fact.

Bahkdar does hit extremely hard...there are times he's had to. I've come to the conclusion that he has, I believe...if you hit hard enough, there's no way someone can blow off your shot...at least, not without calling the wrath of a herald down on you. He's never hit lightly, but he has raised the strength of his shots somewhat over the last year.
Some of the weapons he has I don't like...he knows this. Mostly it's his quad-head flail, but the newer one hits a lot better than the first. His clubs have always hit hard, but that's ok, they're not too bad at all compared to some swords I've been hit by at nationals. I'm not using this to single him out...I'm just using him as an example. Hell, I've doubled some people over before, so I'm not innocent of hitting hard either; oh well, this ain'y no tap game.

Though there are times I think people do some unneccessary things (like hitting people three, maybe four time after they call dead and drop their weapons and themselves to the ground), there are reasons for that as well. After all, I wear almost full armour a lot...the extra is to make sure I'm dead after I call armour. I've seen more than once people get hit in the armour, call armour, and the person may be already walking by, so that person with armour kills the other guy. This leads to very bad feelings, and anger, both of which are BAD on the field.

is there a more recent thread for this topic?

no....i dont think there is

but i would like to say....the suffiient force debate

sufficient force is to be determined by the target....the person receiving the hit

no one ever HAS to take a hit....it's an honour system (true the game is less fun when people blow off shots) but no shot is mandatory to take

i will take hits depending on the battlefield situattion

in a duel...i take everything
if the battle is slow paced...ill take just about everything unless it is very soft
if the battle is fast and fierce....ill take good solid shots (and even then i usually take most shots)

if you have to think..."was that hard enough?"...take the hit

my realm hits hard, we are not tappers. I was not aware of ttappers till Oct Fest. I received a fair number of well placed tapps that intially I did not take. Hell I wasnt even sure I got hit, my shield was a bit too low exposing my shoulder and I did not recognize the tapps as from the weapon.
I still hit hard and I respect those who do. It will take more time to take those tapps...

as someone said (not qouted) its hard to ignore multiple shots
but since Im not that fast, I will hit hard.

around here we say take anything you have any doubt about. we also have the general rule that newer fighters can't take light or flat. this usually takes care of the problem. also i could make uberlight weapons out of pvc.

As far as the PVC only cores thing goes, I am against it because it makes no sense to me. I don't have any experience actually fighting out in the field due to not being able to go to Aquilonia's practices last year because I don't have a car, but I have used pvc weapons enough when I practiced with Darkholme in high school at Roy, before they blackballed me in June after I graduated last year, to know that it is a light core material and it would be very easy to make superlight weapons with it.

And as far as the whole "sufficient force" and "moderate your hits" thing goes, this is a full contact sport. If you can injure someone or cause them great pain with your weapon, even only if you hit with all of your might, then it should not have been passed by the herald. That is pretty much a given. If it just "hurts," then you should either toughen up or take Forkbeard's advice and just use a bow and arrow.

I was around 5' 11" and weighed around 140 pounds when I practiced with Darkholme, yet I still seemed to take getting hit just fine when I went, even when hit with a large two-handed sword by a strong individual whose name I don't remember. I have to admit that I did wince at the blow when I got knocked back, but I have no complaints about the way I was hit. I am the same size and weight now, so being hit will probably be the same for me when or if I ever get to practice with Aquilonia.

As far as hitting with sufficient force, I am just going to use a heavier weapon with more padding, since my fighting style will allow it even though I am small and light. Personally, I have no use for tiny weapons as all they have ever done is make me die in the game because I have to get closer to use them. I can also one-handed thrust with a small two-handed sword just as easily as I can with a short sword, so I really have no use for "punching daggers"(which I have never really seen) or tiny short swords for that either.

And Tyrael, If you think you are a "freaking stick" and "practically two-dimensional," you should try being as light as a teenage girl, like I am. I'm sure you'll have lots of fun getting thrown around by two-handed swords and glaives then.

PVC is actually a really light material. It is very possible to make <12oz swords with it, if you make them well, and especially if the weapon is only abour 24" long overall. Moreover, I don't think it would be practical to enforce a "PVC-only" rule--how could you tell? Would every weapon subject to this rule have to have a section of exposed PVC? Would there be no tape allowed on unpadded portions?

Enforcing a PVC rule wouldn't make since because of reasons previously stated. You can make light PVC weapons and what not.
As for sufficient force issue, it really all depends on the person being hit. I personally have a tendency to "rhino-hide" especially from flails. Now this is not because I am biased or don't want to die. It is just a matter of not feeling shots. When I get on the field, I get a rush. Due to this, I don't feel much. I rely on vision to take my hits more then anything else. Depending on the intensity of the fight, I may have not taken hits that generated bruises.
With this forsight of mine, I try to hit a little harder to make sure people can feel it.

The way I see it, if your sword/fail/axe/whatever hits me, with any force, I take it. You've beaten my defense in one way or another, and oh-no I'll just get up in a few minutes or less to fight you again and figure out what I did wrong/what I can do better.

If it has suffeciant force take it, if not dont. It is that simple. This is not a game of tag, just suck it up and take your hits.

with ultralights and wrist flick's, this is a game of tag. So be it.
I also get caught up in the rush and likely miss taking a few hits, sorry.
there are hits which are very obvious, and those which are not, make the best call you can. Its all perspective,judgemental, irrevelant, as we shall all arise again and fight once more

I tend to take what I consider to be sufficient force hits, and call 'light' on anything I feel (i.e. not garb or whiff) but isn't sufficient force. But if I leave a hit completely unacknowledged and my opponent is sure they got me and tells me so, I'll take it, or say whether it was shield, hand, foot on ground, whatever. I really don't like the thought that others might consider me to be cheating, and I appreciate it when they tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I would just like to say that I am 19 years old, 6 feet tall, a bit under 140 lbs, and have never had any problem with anyone taking my hits that wasn't an issue of adrenaline or blatant rhinohiding. True, I'm sure I don't hit like FB does (and even if I agree with most of his points, I think he could definately be a bit more diplomatic about it. Calling people pussies and * and whatever isn't really necessary.), but on the other hand, I played Amtgard long enough when I was younger to know that tap fighting sucks. I have no problem with people swinging hard as long as they're hitting me right--if you don't have the control not to hit my head, you shouldn't be swinging hard enough to make it ring--but I took some * hard hits across my back and elsewhere at the opener, and I have and had no problem with it.

I like the feeling of knowing I was in a fight, that I felt every solid hit and my hits were felt as well. Im a power hitter, just am. Perhaps in time I'll be able to do more tap-like strikes, but till then I hit, and hope to be hit when Im out there.

We dont need to regulate materials that are recognized safe. I say no to PVC only. I say no to Fiberglass only. I dont want metal out there and I dont trust wood weapons.