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Spears with small heads hit too hard.
Big Jimmy wrote:Just to let you know, Magpie is in Hydra with me, and as far as I know we built the first low profile spear heads. When he says small, he means exactly what you're referring to.
bo1 wrote:we, hydra that is, did start making the small headed spears a few year ago. we havnt had any injries with them of any significance. i was 2 feet away from you when you were injured, so i have a perspective on what happened to you at chaos.
the facts are, the spear passed check that day, and the following morning. so i think it is a safe weapon, i am sad that you were injuried but i think injuries happen. now i am going to make sure at fest that we check that particular spear thoroughly, i will most likely stick someone myself with it. the problem is most likely that people get lax on check and dont test to 100%.
Rocca wrote:Basically, I'm sitting here running numbers
Rocca wrote:Also, when I run the numbers, it seems a little ridiculous
Big Jimmy wrote:That's pretty simple, with one hand on a 7 foot spear, you have zero control. You're trying to stab someone, we use the back because it's the easiest place to do it over and over consistently connecting.
Giggles wrote:A spear with a 5" profile can be just as dangerous as a spear with a 2.5" profile.
Actually, adding mass to a weapon in the misguided attempt to make it hit more "softly" can make it even less safe and is an extremely foolish way of fixing a problem.
Giggles wrote:How does requiring a weapon to be bigger make it inherently more safe? It only exacerbates and complicates the problem.
~ Kade ~ wrote:I would say most of my spear kills come from one handed stabs.
There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
Big Jimmy wrote:~ Kade ~ wrote:I would say most of my spear kills come from one handed stabs.
I was about to tell you you were doing it wrong, but now I realize that I think you're talking the "hand at the back of the spear, dude just out of my reach, lunge stab" and not the "This is totally awkward, I'm holding the middle of this spear and trying to do some weird underhand or overhand thrust."
Elebrim wrote:Hold on a second, Arrakis. I think you left out a necessary spear design to be considered.
You mention the SBD of 1.3-1.8" and compare it to the SBD of 2.2" to make the point that the new low-profile spears are safer. And it is true that the older foam-football-on-a-stick style spears are going to be less safe than newer tech. But the standard spear you see on an event field isn't normally of that older style. It is more along the lines of the Edhellen build of layered foam providing a circular base on which to mount the half-football of open cell. This spear would have a much larger SBD, probably of at least 6-8" that is then decelerated by the open cell padding of the half-football.
Arrakis wrote:I had no idea people ever put a football on a stick without bluefoam under it. Probably because I can't fathom an idiot with a tiny enough brain to think that that's a good idea being able to breathe and walk simultaneously.
I was talking about wrapping your tip to 4" with a long strip of bluefoam, capping with two layers of bluefoam, and then adding a trimmed half-football of POOF foam. It's NOT as good a design for preventing pushthrough as a PCC or Solid Block design! It's just not! It might hit "softer" to somebody not getting mega-jacked with it, but it hits at least as hard as my 2.75" wide spear does if you hammer somebody who isn't looking.
And just to add onto the point about weapon checking - It's important, but in cases like this the standard "back check" is just not sufficient. We check weapons on an area of the body which is more damage resistant and broader than other areas - and it's those other areas that are more likely to be hit. Sure, the worst offenders will get caught, but what about all those that are "eh, it's ok" or "bring it back tomorrow" that are borderline? Passing those through is extremely risky because those are the ones that are going to be the most dangerous when they target any other area on the body.
Anyone thought of spear checking on a shoulder? A calf or thigh? A stomach? That'd be a much better measure for questionable weapons.
Rocca wrote:Hey guys - Sorry I've been out of it for so long, I haven't had a chance to read your posts. Thank you for talking about this by the way ;). I went to PAX (which was tons of fun) and caught some sort of evil bug, but I will try and have the numbers that I ran up by tomorrow, though by now it may be a moot point!
Arrakis wrote:UNNNGHHHH DID YOU GET TO PLAY THE DUKE NUKEM FOREVER DEMO?
Rocca wrote:...
What is the difference in pressure if there are to spears, one with a 5 inch head and one with a 2.5 inch head, that are the same weight?
Pressure=force/striking area.
5 inch spear: (Surface area of 0.4m2)
Maxmax pressure: 85.82/ 0.4m2 = 214.55 pascals
Maxmin pressure: 43.0n/ 0.4m2= 107.5 pascals
Averagemax pressure : 67.1n/ 0.4m2= 167.8 pascals
Averagemin pressure : 33.6n/ 0.4m2= 84 pascals
2.5 inch spear : (Surface area of 0.2m2)
Maxmax pressure: 85.82/ 0.2m2 = 429.1 pascals
Maxmin pressure: 43.0n/ 0.2m2= 215 pascals
Averagemax pressure : 67.1n/ 0.2m2= 335.5 pascals
Averagemin pressure : 33.6n/ 0.2m2= 168 pascals
So, as one would expect, when the surface area is halved, the applied pressure doubles.
Slagar wrote:See, the problem there is that you're legislating construction methods, and crippling the advancements made by the experts. If somebody can make a safe, passing, lo-pro spear, then to outlaw it is pretty stupid.
We start making rules against certain builds just because some people * 'em up, the level of weapon-making in our game goes downhill pretty quick. This problem is handled at check, same as all the other ones like it. If you are a little wary of lo-pro spears, test all 5-10 of them at any given event extra thoroughly. Pass or fail them on their own merits. Creating a blanket rule like this causes weapon tech to stagnate in the long run, and is just plain unnecessary.
Derian wrote:Well, ****. Par is right.
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