Belegarth

I recently tried my hand at archer gaurding....props to the people who do that on a regular basis- that stuff's hard! I guess i'm just not use to paying attention to someone else besides my opponete- but at first i had some difficulty with it- excpecially knowing when to fight or go with my archer...anyways-

Any types on archer gaurding would rock and be much appreciated- I'm interested in hearing what people- archer gaurd, acher, or the people trying to kill them off have to say on it . thanks!

Work consistently with one archer in your realm. You get to know their patterns, and they get to know you and your ability. Pick an archer who isnt combat ready(Sir Kyrian, Cyric do not ususally need an arch guard).

If your archer is a veteran, and used to working with a guard, they will give you orders. They are usually more observant, because they are looking for their shot.

You should die before your archer does. Your job is to keep them alive, and alot of times that means sacraficing yourself so they stay alive just a little bit longer.

Communication is probably the biggest thing. You should be immediately telling your archer if you see a threat from a direction they're not looking. Check their "6", i.e., behind them constantly. Your head should be on a swivel. Watch for the fast runners who like to charge at the archers. They tend to go wide around formations or lines or may charge through an opening they see. If you see someone charging your archer, immediately get between the threat and your archer and say which direction the threat is coming from.

Watch the trajectories of arrows fired at your archer so you can figure out where you have to put your shield to stop them. If nothing else, get comfortable with quickly determining if they're coming high, middle, or low.

Kyrian

I've found that guarding archers tends to work best (i.e., is sort of necessary) for really small battles (say 10-15 per side) or for really large battles. I used to often go to a large unit's practice which could field as much as 15 per side and I'd often get the opposing side to send a noob with a large shield STRAIGHT after me (as in, their job was to charge me hard and that's about it). Without some one to run interference on them, I'd usually have to run around (and the noobs are invariably YOUNG whereas I'm not so that often is not a good idea) OR I pull my back-up and fight. While I usually survived those fights, I'd rarely get a chance to arch for the rest of the skirmish. So, if that sort of thing is running rampant and I can't get a watcher--I'll grab my shield or greatsword and go looking for the noon-suiciders...

At a typical Aratari monthly battle, I'll have 2-3 fellow Vardrotta and friends to fight with. So, having a buckler and keeping my head on a swivel often is sufficient as anyone that charges me already has to get past my friends and I can run to some help. At Rag, there are a couple of semi-professional backstabber (and * good at it) that specialize at times in raiding the rear line of archers so having 1 person with a large shield and keeping a sharp eye out can be worthwhile.

GvK wrote:At Rag, there are a couple of semi-professional backstabber (and * good at it) that specialize at times in raiding the rear line of archers

Sounds like something I'd do.

What type of weapon works best if your archer guarding. Maybe even the pros and cons of the different weapons that arch guards use. Thanks

Archer guards should probably go with a decent sized shield and whatever blue (Class I) weapon they prefer to use. The point is to stop/slow down folks attacking archers, as well as blocking arrows and javelins aimed at them.

As Guntar mentioned, a shield is extremely important as the archer guard has to stop any incoming missiles (arrows, javelins, rocks) from getting to his or her archer. As far as shield shape, I'd say that really depends on the guard's preference. A smaller shield is much more mobile but a large shield doesn't require as much movement to be effective. I wouldn't recommend a spear or red as an archer guard unless you have a buckler or back shield and I believe that spears and reds are much more useful in roles other than archer guards.

As an aside, ideally anyone with a shield who sees a missile weapon flying over should try and stop it as soon as possible to prevent it from hitting anyone behind them. Granted, there are situations where that may not be feasible, i.e., you're in the front rank of a line getting attacked by spears. However, there have been several situations where I've fired an arrow at a target that missed but still continued on to hit someone behind the intended target. The same would apply to javelins also.

Kyrian

not trying to argue but in a small realm do you think a big red would work as just for the intimidation alone?

If you do that, do what Kyrian said and get a buckler or a back shield. Enemy archers can take your archer out quicker than anyone else out there and you cannot legally block an arrow with your weapon.

Another word of advice, Watch out for flankers! Especially if they have bows or throwing weapons. I know I will have one or the other, or possibly both, when I will be doing such maneuvers.

ICARUS wrote:not trying to argue but in a small realm do you think a big red would work as just for the intimidation alone?

Only until your realmmates get over their intimidation and learn to just charge in and kill you and the archer, so no, definitely not in the long run.

Also, the fewer people you have, the more you probably want your archer to rely on their own two feet and eyes for defense than having a dedicated archer guard, since you just can't spare the people.

And blackcat - an archer working with flankers is great, and a flanker with missile weapons is great, but an archer just out there trying to be a flanker? Not so great. Without someone between you and melee fighters you're going to be tossing your bow all the time to defend yourself anyway, or else just be charged and killed.

Would a two-man line with and archer behind work? Or maybe you could keep two archers together and have one man guarding.


Or you could just clone Kyrian.

Underhill wrote:Or you could just clone Kyrian.

Who told you? How did you get this information? This is classified. Not even the subject is suppose to know and now you have gone and distroyed years of work

If your team has less than 7 people then it should be up to the archer to watch his/her back.

Sorry to tell you this, but that information has been freely distributed on the Belegarth Wiki. I think that just about everyone in Belegarth whom is interested knows about your secret project by now.

I didn't know that you were involved in it though.

if your speaking of the galin project he's not involved unless he is an EBF in non-alcholic clothing.

and of course you want have to worry about the galin project to much longer the HoRdE plans to dismantle it within the next 5 to 10 years

oh and as far as archer guarding is concerned the archer should be capable of watching for themselves if they need help they can run and find a defender or scream

I found one on eBay. I think you've got a leak.

anyway, sometimes an archer should be protected if u can spare but an archer should have his eyes on the field anyway for targets, so he should see the attack.

graavish wrote:if your speaking of the galin project he's not involved unless he is an EBF in non-alcholic clothing.

and of course you want have to worry about the galin project to much longer the HoRdE plans to dismantle it within the next 5 to 10 years

That'll save me a lot of trouble. Have fun playing James Bond medieval monster style.

Oh, and as far as archer guarding is concerned, I should be able to protect myself once I get more experienced, since I am learning to use a variety of melee weapons. I am going to be an archer, but I am also training to be a melee fighter and a skirmisher.

dude like i've said before do what you want but i would seriously suggest concentrating on one style of melee like tower punch and sword or strap round and sword or red or sumthing and as far as archery goes that takes awhile to become profiecient in as well i would suggest just getting you something that looks cool and fighting with it every time you fight

I am already proficient in archery, I just need to work on accurately shooting moving targets. I am practicing fighting with a sword and punch and florentine right now. I'm actually not doing much archery right now since I don't have my own bow yet. Technically, I do have my own bow, but it isn't Belegarth-legal. I still need to order my arrow kits off of Edhellen too.

I won't be doing red swords, spear/glaive, and other weapons for quite a while. I'm not going to do everything at once, but I like to fight with several styles so that I am a versatile fighter.

I fight lmost totally flourintine and im getting good at it, flow ur movements, attack 2 directions at once quickly, thats the advantage to flourintine

how are you proficient in archery if you can't shoot accurately, you have no belegarth arrows, you have no belegarth legal bow, and you're not actually doing much archery right now?

I'd humbly like to suggest that it would take longer than you've been with belegarth to become "proficient" at archery.

even if you have shot a bow previously.



just calm down, work to have fun (and get better) and don't think too much of yourself.

Just to reiterate what Magpie said, Belegarth arrows perform significantly differently than normal arrows. It takes time to develop a "feel" for how high to aim when using our arrows because of how much the weighted heads affect the flight characteristics. Our arrows drop like rocks when aimed like typical arrows.

Being a versatile fighter is great. I arch but I also carry a shield and backup weapon so I can transition to sword and board if needed.

Over the course of my fighting career, I've tried to focus on one style at a time. Once I got comfortable with a style, I moved on to a different one. My definition of "comfortable" was that I could use the style regularly and not die every time I used it. The trick was realizing that certain styles have some inherent weaknesses that you have to be conscious about when going up against other styles. As an example, learning to fight florentine usually starts out with getting the leg hit a lot until your realize how to block effectively and/or move out of the way. Florentine also tends to be an arrow magnet. You just have to develop your field awareness until you become comfortable with tracking the archers and who they're aiming at.

I started out fighting with a long sword and axe with a buckler. I then changed to a medium-length sword for speed and an axe. Finally, I went with two short swords, buckler, and armor. When I was knighted, I started learning sword and board. Later, when I was in Amtgard, I picked up dual long sword without a buckler. When I returned to Belegarth/Dagorhir, I took up sword and board on a regular basis as well as archery. It can really take time to figure out what styles best suit you and that you can be good at--Note: these are not always the same--but give them all a chance and keep in mind that some styles have significantly higher learning curves than others.

Kyrian

Magpie wrote:how are you proficient in archery if you can't shoot accurately, you have no belegarth arrows, you have no belegarth legal bow, and you're not actually doing much archery right now?

I'd humbly like to suggest that it would take longer than you've been with belegarth to become "proficient" at archery.

even if you have shot a bow previously.



just calm down, work to have fun (and get better) and don't think too much of yourself.

I borrowed someone else's bow and Belegarth arrows for the first 3 practices my realm had. I also used an archery glove during the 2nd and 3rd practices, which I have my own.

I actually completely missed the first time I shot a Belegarth arrow. Those things definitely fly differently. I learned very quickly that you have to get a "feel" for how high to aim such an arrow to be able to hit your target. I have been doing quite well at Belegarth archery, but there is definitetly room for improvement, since I am quite far from mastering the art of shooting foam arrows. I need to get my own bow and arrows so that I can practice shooting every time I go to practice.

Oh, and when I said "I just need to work on accurately shooting moving targets" I meant shooting at people who are running like a bat out of hell or can dodge things very quickly. We have many people like that from Aquilonia who visit our realm practices. I'd like to start practicing shooting at them during practice battles for the fun of it.

Yeah... I haven't actually done any archery at all yet, though I would love to get into that at some point.

I just think that it should take quite a bit longer than 3 practices even (at least a year, or so) to become 'proficient' at belegarth archery.

and i'm not JUST talking about accuracy, etc, I'm also talking about things that I've heard Chicken mention: rules about when to half-draw, when not to, how to tell where you hit when you shoot, and how to call hits on things (armor vs helms vs unarmored... amount of deflection and whether it's a hit..... hand on a weapon... garb... and things like that).

I just don't see how it's possible to become good at everything that goes into belegarth archery in.. three ... or even ten practices.


[edit: sorry to have rerailed the topic. will stop doing so]

I'll probably be doin' some archer guarding at spring war since it'll be my first time returning to the battle field since my nose was broken.

So, keeping in mind I probably won't be alone in the following, how do you suggest guarding multiple archers at once?

As Kyrian noted, Dag/Bel arrows have some weird flight characteristics and IMIO, having been arching a lot for the past 4-5 years, once you get past 15-20' your accuracy with arrows becomes more "feel- and experience-based" then technical/skill-based. Past 40' or so, luck and wind speed can play a major role. Hitting a moving target is definitely more feel-based then technical skill.

I'm a streaky archer and it irks me to no end, some days I'm deadly and others I'm just a guy with a bow. Sometimes this changes during the course of the day. To improve my chances of shooting better more consistently, I strive to make and use arrows that are almost identical in size, shape, and length and practice. I generally start at close range and work my way back to max range and my target is my round punch shield. I will not allow myself to increase the range until I can consistently meet some goall. For example: hitting with all 8 arrows at short range, 7 of 8 at medium range, 6 of 8 at long range, and 4 of 8 at max range, etc.

Digoza,

Ideally, you'd have one archer guard per archer. Attacks can come from so many angles; one guard would have a real challenge trying to protect more than one archer. With that said, if you were a lone guard detailed to protect multiple archers, your head had better be on a swivel. You would need to be constantly scanning for threats, even more so since you'd have so much more area to cover. Probably the biggest thing to develop would be your spatial awareness in knowing where your archers are and being able to quickly identify who is most threatened by the enemy. Once you've figured out where the enemy is coming from, you have to communicate that quickly and get the archers out of harm's way.

Kyrian