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Cyric wrote:It sounds really good to me, but we can't pass a single rule change without massive back and forth arguing on the same point, much less a complete overhaul of the rules.
Anastasia of Chamonix wrote:I can build two blues (class I) for under $25 dollars. Can I get armor for that price? I doubt it, especially if you want it to look nice.
There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
Black Cat wrote:As for the nerf on archery, it would make our sport more realistic, while reducing the effectiveness of archery. Arrows didn't pierce armor (at least not plate armor) nearly as effectively as some like to claim. Archery might be reasonably playable under the new ruleset, but it would be best to playtest the ruleset to make sure.
Oisin wrote:18 gauge steel (effective minimum thickness of plate armour) weighs 2 lbs per square foot unworked. 16 gauge steel (above average/high quality thickness) weighs 2.5 lbs per square foot unworked.
Oisin wrote:Black Cat, I agree completely about double greens.Black Cat wrote:As for the nerf on archery, it would make our sport more realistic, while reducing the effectiveness of archery. Arrows didn't pierce armor (at least not plate armor) nearly as effectively as some like to claim. Archery might be reasonably playable under the new ruleset, but it would be best to playtest the ruleset to make sure.
This, however, I disagree with. It would be a great statement if anyone in Belegarth actually wore metal plate armour. There are a very, very few people (myself included--my cuirasse is steel lamellar, and I'm working on steel shoulders) who do, but we should not give the benefits of steel plate armour to the vast masses who wear minimum weight leather. That's like arguing that your 1996 Corolla goes 220 mpg just because a Formula 1 car does.
Now, I'm not saying that we should give metal plate armour special status, but arguing that all armour blocking arrows is realistic just because some did doesn't really follow.
I agree that our system needs an update/revision, but I don't think we've found the right one yet.
Forkbeard--Steel plate armour weighs about 2.5 times per area covered than does leather plate armour. 20 gauge plate armour is too flimsy, cheap and rare to be considered, so I'm going to ignore it.
18 gauge steel (effective minimum thickness of plate armour) weighs 2 lbs per square foot unworked. 16 gauge steel (above average/high quality thickness) weighs 2.5 lbs per square foot unworked. 12 oz leather (minimum thickness leather armour) weighs 0.75 lbs per square foot unworked. 16 oz leather (above average/high quality thickness, the thickest leather armour I've ever seen or heard of on a Bel field) weighs 1 lb per square foot unworked. I can't say exactly how much a square foot of maille weighs, but it weighs even more than the plate armour does.
Assuming 18 gauge steel and 12 oz leather are roughly equivalent in terms of their value, and 16 gauge steel and 16 oz leather are the same, you come out with steel armour weighing 2.5 times as much per area covered than leather. On top of that, I'd guess (I may well be wrong) that a much higher percentage of metal armour in Belegarth is of higher gauge than leather armour is higher thickness, and that's even without considering the cheese that presents itself when you consider min/maxing techniques like ninja brig and studded leather, which weigh even less and cause even less encumbrance and thermal issues.
You are correct about most metal plate armour being more flexible and better fitting than a lot of leather armour, but that's because more people wear badly made leather armour than wear badly made metal armour. I'd venture to guess that nearly all of the game's badly made metal armour is maille, which does not restrict range of motion and breathes wonderfully but weighs far more than anything else.
Forkbeard, making plate armour with leather, you can get exactly the same range of motion as you can making it with metal. If you're doing it right, you lose almost no flexibility, but it takes more work, more parts, and more skill to do that, and most people making leather armour (you're right, most of our game's leather armour is homebrew, compared to nearly all metal plate, which is purchased) either don't know enough about armouring and physiology to do it right, or don't take the time to make all the extra parts, straps, and undergarments required to properly fit a metal harness.
There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
Rasheab wrote:Is there a reason we aren't distinguishing between "types" of armor? I don't propose adding extra hits, but what if plate armor was given the bonus vs. arrows, while leather uses the rules we have now (arrows penetrate).
Rasheab wrote:Is there a reason we aren't distinguishing between "types" of armor? I don't propose adding extra hits, but what if plate armor was given the bonus vs. arrows, while leather uses the rules we have now (arrows penetrate).
Cyric wrote:Rasheab wrote:Is there a reason we aren't distinguishing between "types" of armor? I don't propose adding extra hits, but what if plate armor was given the bonus vs. arrows, while leather uses the rules we have now (arrows penetrate).
We don't do that now for simplicity's sake. all armor counts the same so it's easier to keep track of.
There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
Derian wrote:Additionally, if plate had an extra advantage, there would be a much higher incidence of people wearing shoddy plate on the field. As I'm sure we can all guess, shoddy plate has a much higher chance of hurting someone than shoddy leather.
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