Belegarth

by **Tails** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:36 pm

You can skip? hot dog! I thought that my training was going to have to take much longer.

by **Grim Warhawk AlRitte** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:56 pm

Yea, to enter an EMT-P class usually requires EMT-B or EMT-I (either one) first. There are a few exceptions, but usually in those you actually take EMT-B as the first part of the course then go strait into the EMT-P stuff after getting the B cert.

Tails, PM me if you have Q's about EMS.

Know what, this discussion got sidetracked a lot. Lets get back on topic. Has anyone volunteered to lead a/the medical guild?

by **Element** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:50 am

###The Medical Guild (when operational) should be worked into all Belegarth waivers. ###

Marking:
Belegarth Medical Guild members should be marked by a Red Cross flag belt, which also states their level of qualification marked underneath in gold chevrons.

Medic Level 1: Red Cross Professional Rescue training. Includes First aid AED/CPR.

And

-3 months in guild.

Medic Level 2: EMT-B, EMT-I/85, EMT-I/99, Emergency responder, Nurse.

And

3-6 months in guild

Medic Level 3: General Practitioner, Medical Doctor, EMT-P (Paramedic), Flight Surgeon, Military Training
,
And

6+ months in guild.

The bare minimum Level 1 should know is the following;

* How to clean and dress wounds.
* How to reset, splint, or immobilize fractures.
* How to perform CPR.
* How to reduce a high fever.
* How to deal with shock, or post-traumatic stress syndrome.
* How to deal with heat exhaustion, or heat stroke.
* How to deal with frostbite and hypothermia.
* How to recognize and treat food poisoning.
* How to clean and treat burns.
* How to treat symptoms of electrical shock.

Equipment for Medic Level 1:

* 2 absorbent compress dressings (5 x 9 inches)
* 25 adhesive bandages (assorted sizes)
* 5 adhesive cloth tape (10 yards x 1 inch)
* 5 antibiotic ointment packets (approximately 1 gram)
* 20 antiseptic wipe packets
* 2 blanket (space blanket)
* 1 breathing barrier (with one-way valve)
* 2 instant cold compresses
* 2 pairs of non-latex gloves (size: large)
* 10 Glucose Tablets
* 2 Large Acetaminophen containers. (500mg)
* 2 Large Ibuprofen containers. (500mg)
* Scissors
* 5 roller bandage (3 inches wide)
* 15 sterile gauze pads (3 x 3 inches.
* Oral thermometer (non-mercury/nonglass)
* 5 triangular bandages
* Tweezers
* First aid instruction booklet

Medic Level 2-3 Equipment Kit. (Add the Level 1 Equipment Kit to this one.)

* 60 Bandages Assorted
* 5 Triangular Bandages 40"x40"
* 1 Elastic Bandage 3"x5yds.
* 4 Pressure Bandages
* 10 Gauze Pads 2"x2"
* 10 Gauze Pads 4"x4"
* 3 Roll Gauze 2"x4yds.
* 3 Roll Gauze 4"x4yds.
* 4 Combine Pads 5"x9"
* 8 Iodine Swab Sticks
* 1 Bacitracin 1 oz.
* 1 Eyewash 4 oz.
* 3 Eye Pads, medium
* 1 Stethoscope & BP Cuff
* 1 Penlight, disposable
* 1 Bulb Syringe
* 3 Bio-Waste Bags, 1 gallon
* Trauma Board
* Needle holder hemostat
* 5" curved hemostat
* Scalpel handle
* Sterile scalpel blade
* Surgical probe
* Operating scissors
* Suture lip scissors
* 5" Pointed forceps
* 10 Non-Suture wound closure strips
* 5-0 Black nylon STERILE suture (used for fine external skin and
mouth cuts) with attached needle
* 3-0 Black nylon STERILE suture (used for external muscle skin
areas) with attached needle

Note, A lot of this stuff costs a **** ton of money, this is a guide line, not a you have to have this list.

I've looked over the posts so far and this covers most things I've seen, I will be working on the medical guild more, my next steps involve writing out a charter, by-laws, and getting members. I have basics for a charter outlined, please post if you have something to add.

Things to be worked on:

A listing of Belegarth specific medical concerns, such as removing armor for treatment, dealing with the injured drunk, phone that has reception at the event (maybe a satellite phone,) Guild rules of operation (specific medical rules i.e. being required to state your level of training, and ask permission before beginning treatment are covered under medical training) Guild rules being things like, being sober, having a marked tent/place where people can find you.

Plans for in guild advancement:

For Medic Level 1: This is easy, you can become course instructor for the Medic Level 1 requirements from your local red cross.

Medal Level 2+: presents problems, involving setting up a “College of Belegarth Medicine” or a fund for paying for other people to go to college. I don’t think this is going to fly. Maybe the introduction of a class taught by a Medic Level 2+ involving half-steps, Medic Level 1 ½ knowing some of the easier to learn things that higher Medic Levels know and can teach.

Wish list: Marshals to be Medical Guild members, Insurance via Belegarth, All events to have staffed first aid tent, Discounts at events, one million dollars. This, for Everyone http://www.e-firstaidsupplies.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FPI&Product_Code=922-11983

by **Derian** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:56 am

I like it, generally. This is what needs to happen - someone or a few people need to just step up and do it. That said, here's my notes:

Element wrote:Medic Level 3: General Practitioner, Medical Doctor, EMT-P (Paramedic), Flight Surgeon, Military Training

There's a lot of redundancy there. A general practitioner is a doctor, just like a flight surgeon. I would say you should go with EMT-P, MD/DO. That should cover everything. The military training is unecessary, unless you're getting at specific medical related MOS's/ratings/AFSC's, but in that case, I believe they all get some sort of civillian certification. I know Pararescue (Air Force Special Ops rescue guys) and 18D (Army Special Forces medics) get EMT-P certified as part of their training. Corpsman and general medic guys probably get EMT-B and likely shouldn't be part of tier 3 as a rule. Any sort of officer positions are going to have either RN or a prerequisite MD/DO degree.

Wish list: Marshals to be Medical Guild members, Insurance via Belegarth, All events to have staffed first aid tent, Discounts at events

All quite reasonable. IANAL (Paging Jay...), but I'm betting that working the guild into an 'official' Belegarth capacity or into the waivers absolutely cannot happen until there's BoD/organizer insurance and specific insurance for a medical guild. Speaking as both someone who doesn't want to see Belegarth hosed for something dumb and as a person that would probably be directly liable as a director, there's just too much liability to tiptoe around this. There's no half assing if it's anything in an official capacity.

If we want to pursue making this official, we would almost certainly need to contact our corporate lawyer type guy on this.

by **Saxon** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:39 am

Yeah, medical guild sounds like a cool idea, but I would think the highest amount of medical training that should be required would be AED/CPR (first responder) training. Make higher ranks based on actually serving as a member of the guild. There is too much real life law and liability on the line when you ask real MD's to bring scalpels and surgical probes to events. I don't think there is an event that happens so far from civilization that this would be a better option than getting 911 there asap while people trained in first response just do their thing.

I would say rank 1 is anyone willing to provide band aids and water. Rank 2 be trained in first response and committing x amount of time. Rank 3 be committing even more time, and perhaps serving as "head medic" at some number of events. This would be functional, while not infringing on liability issues.

My 2c

by **Element** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:02 am

Saxon wrote:There is too much real life law and liability on the line when you ask real MD's to bring scalpels and surgical probes to events.

Element wrote:[b]
* Needle holder hemostat
* 5" curved hemostat
* Scalpel handle
* Sterile scalpel blade
* Surgical probe
* Operating scissors
* Suture lip scissors
* 5" Pointed forceps
* 10 Non-Suture wound closure strips
* 5-0 Black nylon STERILE suture (used for fine external skin and
mouth cuts) with attached needle
* 3-0 Black nylon STERILE suture (used for external muscle skin
areas) with attached needle

All of the above listed equipment is pretty much standard for a suture kit, I do not think that there are going to be objections to qualified (Belegarth official) personal closing up wounds, it is not for performing on-site surgeries.

by **Element** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:33 am

Derian wrote:
Element wrote:Medic Level 3: General Practitioner, Medical Doctor, EMT-P (Paramedic), Flight Surgeon, Military Training

There's a lot of redundancy there. A general practitioner is a doctor, just like a flight surgeon. I would say you should go with EMT-P, MD/DO. That should cover everything. The military training is unecessary, unless you're getting at specific medical related MOS's/ratings/AFSC's, but in that case, I believe they all get some sort of civillian certification. I know Pararescue (Air Force Special Ops rescue guys) and 18D (Army Special Forces medics) get EMT-P certified as part of their training. Corpsman and general medic guys probably get EMT-B and likely shouldn't be part of tier 3 as a rule. Any sort of officer positions are going to have either RN or a prerequisite MD/DO degree.

In that case military training should be removed from the qualifications listing, even if that is not the case it should still be removed and Military personal should produce certifications equivalent to the civilian rank. It is something that needs to be worked on by someone who knows what the medical military training is like and what it equates to, someone who has been there done that, not someone with wikipedia. Until that happens we can give Medical Level case by case, until we get the ranking figured out. I would prefer to have all the research done before hand, as Derian said, if we want this to be official we cannot half * it.

Does anyone outright know how Military Medical training equates to civilian?

Derian wrote:
Element wrote:Wish list: Marshals to be Medical Guild members, Insurance via Belegarth, All events to have staffed first aid tent, Discounts at events

All quite reasonable. IANAL (Paging Jay...), but I'm betting that working the guild into an 'official' Belegarth capacity or into the waivers absolutely cannot happen until there's BoD/organizer insurance and specific insurance for a medical guild. Speaking as both someone who doesn't want to see Belegarth hosed for something dumb and as a person that would probably be directly liable as a director, there's just too much liability to tiptoe around this. There's no half assing if it's anything in an official capacity.

If we want to pursue making this official, we would almost certainly need to contact our corporate lawyer type guy on this.

My only major issue is the need of, when we get this working, putting it into the standard Belegarth event waiver OR having a separate Medical guild specific waiver. Insurance is a long way off, but as I see it, if someone signs off on the Medical Guild while it doesn't outright stop them from suing (a waiver doesn't stop someone from suing, just makes it a **** ton harder to win) it just puts suing the Medical Guild on the same level as suing event organizers. This shows a need for two different waivers, one with the Medical Guild on it, and another without, people who sign the one with the Medical Guild can go the first aid tent, and can be treated. Those who don't would be refused until they sign a Medical release, or grant consent if unable to sign. (as per guild member discretion, keeping in mind, we are there to help people, by law in most states unconscious people are assumed to have granted consent.) Does anyone know what would have to be accomplished for a Medical Guild to be able to treat minors? Maybe a clause requiring both parent and minor to sign off on it, or would wholesale refusal to treat minors be better? I think that minors are something that needs to be done on the state level. Meaning that we should organize the Medical Guild on the state level, Medical Guild members working in the state the event is held in should be responsible for the laws on that state.

by **Element** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:07 am

Belegarth Medical Guild Charter

Sponsor: Belegarth Medieval Combat Society (hereafter “BMCS”)

* Chapter I: sets forth the purposes of the Belegarth Medical Guild.

* Chapter II: defines the criteria for membership in the Belegarth Medical Guild and describe the organs and institutions of the Belegarth Medical Guild.
.
* Chapter III: describe arrangements for integrating the Belegarth Medical Guild with established state law.

* Chapter IV: provides for amendment and ratification of the Charter.

Chapter I: To provide medical service to BMCS members at events and local practices within the extent of our training.

Chapter II: To join The Belegarth Medical Guild Apply to the Local Guild Recruiter in your area, if there is no Local Guild Recruiter in your area fill out THIS application and send it to

Address

Email address

Medic Level 1: Red Cross Professional Rescue training. Includes First aid AED/CPR.

And

-3 months in guild.

Medic Level 1 ½: Red Cross Professional Rescue training. Includes First aid AED/CPR. Certified attendance and passing of the Medic Level 1 ½ test. (As described in Chapter III.)

And

-3 months in guild.

Medic Level 2: EMT-B, EMT-I/85, EMT-I/99, Emergency responder.

And

3-6 months in guild

Medic Level 3: General Practitioner, Medical Doctor, EMT-P (Paramedic), NCLEX-RN.

And

6+ months in guild.

Head Medic: Highest ranking Medical Guild officer on location, OR in cases of equal rank officer with the longest time serving. Also serves as Guild Recruiter, Checking on Certification of Medical Guild officers, having contact with Guild President.

Guild President: Serves as Guild Head, responsible for major/policy changes, breaking tie votes, guild treasury, two year term.

Chapter III:

Chapter IV: ¾ Majority petition of all Head Medics allows for: Removal of Guild President, major/policy changes, use of guild treasury, additions and changes to Guild Charter/By-laws.

by **Element** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:19 am

MEDICAL GUILD CONSENT FORM

Only COMPLETELY FILLED IN forms will be accepted.

NAME OF PARTICIPANT (printed): ______________________________________________________________________

NAME OF PARENT OR GUARDIAN (printed):

______________________________________________________________________

In the event of accident or injury to myself, my spouse or any child of mine (specifically including my child named below as the ("Participant") or in the event of illness of myself, my spouse or any child of mine while in, on or about the premises of the Belegarth Medieval Combat Society (BMCS), Belegarth Medical Guild (BMG), or while participating in any activity sponsored by or under the auspices of the BMCS or BMG under circumstances where I am physically unable to consent or am not present:

1. I hereby voluntarily consent to the * to myself, my spouse or any of my said children of such medical care, attention and treatment by any hospital, physician or physicians as such hospital, physician or physicians may deem necessary or advisable.

2. I authorize any officer or member of the BMG to consent to such medical care, attention or treatment.

3. I hereby voluntarily consent to any officer or member of the BGM to such medical care, attention, and treatment as they (the officer or member) are qualified to perform.

3. I agree to pay the reasonable cost of such medical care, attention or treatment and to indemnify and hold free and harmless of and from any and all liability for such cost the BMCS, BMG and its officers and members thereof.

I, the undersigned, do hereby authorize and consent to any x-ray examination, anesthetic, medical or surgical diagnosis or procedure
rendered under the general or specific supervision of any member of the medical staff or of a dentist licensed under the provisions of the
State of ________________ Education Law and/or Public Health Law of the State of ______________ and on the staff of any hospital holding a current operating certificate issued by
the State of __________________ Department of Health. It is understood that this authorization is given in advance of any specific diagnosis, treatment or hospital
care being required but is given to provide authority and power to render care which the aforementioned physician in the exercise of his best judgment may deem advisable. It is understood that effort shall be made to contact the undersigned prior to rendering treatment to the patient, but that any of the above treatment will not be withheld if the undersigned cannot be reached.

IN CASE OF EMERGENCY CALL:
NAME RELATIONSHIP PHONE NUMBER

SIGNATURE OF PARTICIPANT: _____________________________________________

DATE:

SIGNATURE OF PARENT/GUARDIAN: _________________________________________

DATE:

STATE OF _______________

COUNTY OF ________________

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this day personally appeared {name}, known to me to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument, and upon his{her} oath acknowledged to me that he{she} executed the same for the purposes and consideration therein expressed.

GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICE THIS _______ DAY OF ____________, 20__.

(SEAL)

___________________________________
NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR

{county}:____________________

{state}:___________________

MEDICAL AND EMERGENCY INFORMATION

NAME:
SEX (M) (F)

ADDRESS:
Street/P.O. Box

City State Zip
TELEPHONE:

DATE OF BIRTH:

THE PARTICIPANT AND HIS OR HER PARENTS MUST RESPOND TO THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS AS
ACCURATELY AND COMPLETELY AS POSSIBLE:

Please check those that apply: (Provide necessary details below)
CHRONIC AILMENTS:

ALLERGIES:

ASTHMA, OR OTHER RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS MEDICATION
DIABETES OR HYPOGLYCEMIA BEE STINGS/INSECT BITES
HEMOPHILIA, OR OTHER BLEEDING PROBLEMS FOODS
CIRCULATORY OR HEART PROBLEMS OTHERS, IF SIGNIFICANT
EPILEPSY

DETAILS:

CURRENT MEDICATIONS IF ANY:

DOES THE ABOVE NAMED INDIVIDUAL HAVE ANY MEDICAL CONDITION THAT MAY AFFECT PARTICIPATION IN ACTIVITIES AT THE BMCS? IF YES, PLEASE EXPLAIN:

PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE FILLED IN ALL THE NECESSARY INFORMATION

Currently working on the website, any additions to the charter would be helpful, maybe someone could come up with some bylaws? Or writing out the application?

by **Saxon** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:24 pm

Minors are actually easier. They are minors, which means they can't legally sign for anything, which means there is actually implied consent whether they are conscious or not. At least in the case of emergencies.

by **Element** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:06 pm

http://belegarthmedicalguild.health.officelive.com/default.aspx

WEBSITE!!! whoot

All I need to do now is * filling everything out and making everything up...

by **Element** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:39 pm

Medic Guild is up and running, I am the first member (that I know of.)

If you would like to join please post on this forum or at the Belegarth Medical Guild website with your qualifications, there is a working application page, I will be sending out invitations to members who I know qualify.

Forthcoming from the BMG is an list of events that Medical Officers will be attending, A * list of by-laws, a * charter, Upcoming dates for training for Medic Level 1 and 1 1/2, A way to donate to the guild via paypal, and more.

By the end of next month Medic Guild Officers (me) will be attending practices at Ravensfeast as guild members (meaning I bring out my first aid kit). Other things currently in the works, sending messages to event planners in the southeast about the logistics of a first aid tent staffed by Medic Guild Personal.

So, I get a new flag belt, a first aid kit, and go around calling myself guild president... I need to get new members...

by **Tails** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:05 pm

Just sent my app, but you'll need to wait till I get home from vacation to get a c.opy of my certifications

by **Element** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:48 pm

Thank you Tails. The wait will give me time to churn out a few belt flags.

by **Oraeus** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:17 am

Personally where we work, we are first responders. We show up and offer our assistance if we feel that the EMT'S need called we ask them. If they refuse to allow us to call them (even though we have EMT'S that work here, it may be an EMT asking them for the ambulance to respond) If our guests refuse then we have them sign a declination form. which is as follows:

Declination Form- Medical Assistance

Name: _______________________ Social Cecurity #__________________
Address _____________________________________________________

I, ____________________________ desire to decline/refuse any further medical assistance (Ambulance or Emergency Medical Technicians) after being offered/recommended by Belegarth Medical Guild.

I agree and un derstand that neither Belegarth nor any of its officers, operators, agents, assigned or members may be held liable in any way for complications which may occur because I have chosen to decline offered medical assitance.

I hearby personally assume all risks in connection with this declination and further relase indemnity and hold harmelss agents, assigned and members for any further complications which may result from the declination of the offered medical assitance, including all risks connected therewith, wether forseen or unforseen.

I further state that I am of lawful age or legal guardian of said minor child and legally competent to sign this declination form; that I understand the terms herein are contractual and not a mere recital, and that I have signed this document of my own freewell. I have fully informed myself of the contents of this release by reading it before signing it.

_______________________________ Date____________________
Signature

________________________________ Date____________________
Witness

______________________________ Date ____________________
Witness

Of course I tweaked it a little for belegarth. But this was written by a lawyer for our company. People have the right to refuse medical help. Unless it is implied consent. Meaning that they are unresponsive and you are under the assumption that if they were responsive they would want the help for themselves.

by **Oraeus** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:42 pm

As wells as the arugment about epi pens. they are considered a prescription. Same with Oxygen. On the glucose, that is a online medical direction that needs to be given for someone to give glucose or nitrogen.

Somewhere during the posts someone was discussing who should be able to tell somone they have a sprain or whatnot. Even a Doctor would tell you that unless x-rayed they couldnt tell you that. So in my opinion no one should be diagnosing things of sprains or breaks. (unless there is a visible bone sticking out of the skin) you can not tell it is broke or not.

You also have talked about the AED and how this would give somone a higher level. Unless you have one at an event, why would it matter? The AED's were designed to be able to have anyone with a pulse that can understand directions to be able to operate one. At least this is what I was taught in my EMT course.

by **Element** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:43 pm

Element wrote:Medic Level 1: Red Cross Professional Rescue training. Includes First aid AED/CPR.

AED/CPR is a certification given out by the American Red Cross, the class teaches both at the same time, also, I would love to have a AED that I could tote around to events, and eventually I will.

It is listed in the Consent form that Belegarth Guild Medics are limited by level as to what they can do to treat someone, ERGO, a level one medic is not going to say you have polio.

Oraeus wrote:As wells as the arugment about epi pens. they are considered a prescription. Same with Oxygen. On the glucose, that is a online medical direction that needs to be given for someone to give glucose or nitrogen.

I have never found that emergency oxygen requires a prescription, I have given oxygen to many people as a lifeguard.

Why don't you join up and send me a copy of your certification? That'd be a great way to get your opinion, also, it would give you a chance to read the medical consent form and guild charter.

by **Grim Warhawk AlRitte** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:42 pm

Military medical training and Military Medic are VERY different things. Everyone in the Army, at least, has some level of medical training. Someone should be appointed in the BMG to be a Military Liason. A member of the BMG who is a military medic. They know exactly what training they have and what training others will have. It's very hard to explain to outsiders exactly what training soldiers have unless you've BTDT The certifications military personell are given are very decieving of the training they have been given. I believe that using just their civilian certs is a bad idea because it greatly undershadows thier level of actual training. My $0.02 would be (from the Army standpoint)

Army w/o CLS - BMG lvl 1
Army w/ CLS - BMG lvl 2
Army Medic or higher - BMG lvl 3

and a seperate lvl should be created for people with medical licenses. MD/DO and NP should not be lumped in Lvl 3. And EMT-I 89/99 (AEMT) should be with BMG 3, not BMG 2. Their scope is much larger than that of EMT-B.

Here's what I would suggest.

lvl 1 - Healthcare Provider CRP, Military w/o CLS

lvl 2 - CNA, Military w/CLS, EMT, EMR

lvl 3 - LPN, RN, AEMT, Paramedic, Military Medic

lvl 4 - MD, DO, NP

I feel that way of organizing it has much more consistancy. I mentioned Military for lvl 1 and 2. I know that everyone in any branch has a degree of self/buddy aid skills, and I know that they can take the CLS course. I happen to be an instructor for it anyway.

by **Zithkor** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:28 pm

Along the same kind of topic, has there ever been basic first aid training at an event? I know that red cross will come out to teach. Just an idea.

by **Mulligan** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:52 pm

I have been providing basic medical care at times during practices and events this year, so I might as well join. I am a school teacher that is certified in both First Aid and CPR through the red cross. What else do you need from me?

by **Tails** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:18 pm

Just emailed the certifications, to anyone who is checking that website.

by **Saxon** » Wed May 26, 2010 3:21 pm

Is Element still doing this? He seems to have appointed himself president and then dissapeared...

by **Freki** » Wed May 26, 2010 4:06 pm

This is an awesome Idea and I have sent in my app. I am in the army and have done the CLS and EFR...Ft.Campbell's ADV CLS class.

Side Bar Anyone else in Dur-D in here that has signed up?

by **Tails** » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:30 am

Element's Last visited: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:14 pm

should we consider him MIA and have someone else take up the flag?

I'd throw my hat in if no body with more qualifications then me wants to.

by **Freki** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:43 pm

I'm still all for doing this. I can help run this or do what I need to get things rolling.

Tails let me know if you need any help.

by **Æthelric** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:54 pm

I'm willing to back this up. I'm already the unofficial medic for Jericho (I actually have a First Aid kit most of the time), and wouldn't mind being an "official" Belegarth medic.

by **Æthelric** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:57 pm

Correction: I want to be a part of this. I'm not volunteering to take the lead on this.

by **Tails** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:35 am

First off we need to agree on a lvl/rank system what have you.
Here's what I would suggest; modified from Grim Warhawk AlRitte.

lvl 1 - Healthcare Provider CRP, Military w/o CLS, CNA

lvl 2 - Military w/CLS, EMT, EMR

lvl 3 - LPN, RN, AEMT, Paramedic, Military Medic

lvl 4 - MD, DO, NP, BSN

Once we agree to that I'll start collecting info, unless someone has access to the email account for the Belegarth medic website. this is all under the assumption that nobody else wants to run with this.

by **Freki** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:42 am

I can agree to that, there was somesort of Lvl / rank system further up in the thread, but this seems a lil more in detail and better set up IMO. I have no idea who would have access to the Bel medics guild email accnt though

by **Tails** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:28 pm

talking about the one with the months thing in it?

by **Freki** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:07 pm

Yea kinda, but I don't kow about the time in the guild part though. Do you think there should be a Time in Guild (TiG) thing? I know it take some time to get a EMT B / P cert and what not. I do think individual pertioning to be promoted in the guild should show said cert to prove they have completed the requirements to be promoted though.

The way you have the rank system set up seems fine to me and the other one was far to in detail after looking at it. things should be simple as not to lose focus on what we want this guild to be. To help others when they need medical care.

***didn't want to sound harsh if I came off as such***

by **Tails** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:23 am

works for me

by **Freki** » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:29 pm

Now How the by laws been drawn up or will we have to draw them up? If so input form everyone would be great.

by **Tails** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:55 pm

I've read through most of this thread and it seems like the biggest concern is the liability. I look at it as a fork in the road. we can take one of two paths.

Path one: Get insurance.

Path two: Good Samaritan law.

While path one is the most convenient, it is also the most expensive. Path two is less convenient but it's free and in my mind the best option. Looking over several different state's GSL (Good Samaritan Law) and there are a couple common themes. Must not be paid, must not expect pay, cannot act outside reasonable common sense.

If we act as a club for people who are in the medical field that show up at events and help out someone in need in a strictly bystander way, we are covered under the GSL.

by **Freki** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:28 pm

I can agree to that, Insurance will cost us a lot and I don't think we have that kinda money...I know I don't... The GSL seems the most resonable route to go for the guild and it's not like were going to be doing field surgery on the hurt person, just BLS till the EMT / Paramedics arive anyway.

by **Tails** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:12 pm

Freki wrote:it's not like were going to be doing field surgery on the hurt person, just BLS till the EMT / Paramedics arive anyway.

QFT

by **Freki** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:01 pm

seems wehave our bases covered with the insureance part and I know a lil about the laws of tort...not very much though, just a basic over view... So what would the next step be?
We have our rank system / qualifications for being a member in the guild. How to cover our asses if something happens
How to identify our selves on the field
Oraeus has a really good form that he posted on the thread if someone wishing to decling medical attn if hurt.. i say we get noterized by person if possible
Anything else for input or do we figure out how to turn this into bylaws?

by **Tails** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:07 am

Freki wrote:How to identify our selves on the field

"from the work in progress charter" Marking:
Belegarth Medical Guild members should be marked by a vest with a Red Cross in a white circle, which also states their level of qualification marked in superscript (ex. +^1, +^2, +^3, +^4). People were tossing around a belt flag as the marker, but I personally feel the vest is a better alternitive for two reasons.
First of all a vest is much bigger and easire to see from a distance then a belt flag, and a vest is much easier taken off, as well as noticed, then a belt flag. I'd rather not have someone who is intoxicated giving medical advice.

Freki wrote:Oraeus has a really good form that he posted on the thread if someone wishing to decling medical attn if hurt.. i say we get noterized by person if possible.

I say that when someone get's injured, we walk up to them and say "I've got medical training, can I help you?" It's also part of the GSL. You need consent.

by **Freki** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:47 pm

Tails wrote:
First of all a vest is much bigger and easire to see from a distance then a belt flag, and a vest is much easier taken off, as well as noticed, then a belt flag. I'd rather not have someone who is intoxicated giving medical advice.

I say that when someone get's injured, we walk up to them and say "I've got medical training, can I help you?" It's also part of the GSL. You need consent.

Yea you have a point with the vest, not getting to crazy, but what about a tabberd.. more period IMO, but a * fine idea with the vest and it would be somewhat cheap to make.

You have a good point as well with telling the person then a form. after treatment, we could have a form with what we did for BLS to cover our tails..no pun intended.. incase someting bad were to happen.

by **Æthelric** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:48 pm

Tails wrote:
Freki wrote:How to identify our selves on the field

"from the work in progress charter" Marking:
Belegarth Medical Guild members should be marked by a vest with a Red Cross in a white circle, which also states their level of qualification marked in superscript (ex. +^1, +^2, +^3, +^4). People were tossing around a belt flag as the marker, but I personally feel the vest is a better alternitive for two reasons.
First of all a vest is much bigger and easire to see from a distance then a belt flag, and a vest is much easier taken off, as well as noticed, then a belt flag. I'd rather not have someone who is intoxicated giving medical advice.

Freki wrote:Oraeus has a really good form that he posted on the thread if someone wishing to decling medical attn if hurt.. i say we get noterized by person if possible.

I say that when someone get's injured, we walk up to them and say "I've got medical training, can I help you?" It's also part of the GSL. You need consent.

With regards to the marking, would it be acceptable to sew on a white circle with a red cross onto existing garb, like a tabard or tunic, rather than wearing a separate vest?

by **Freki** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:56 pm

Æthelric wrote:With regards to the marking, would it be acceptable to sew on a white circle with a red cross onto existing garb, like a tabard or tunic, rather than wearing a separate vest?

I have no problem with it if tails dosen't. Seems like a cheaper idea to make, but it would have to be big enough to be easily identifiable though. I have thought about arm bands though, but it would be somewhat hard to see from a distance.

by **Thorondor** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:23 pm

Only problem with attaching it to your garb would be if you weren't on duty, or intoxicated...you'd have to leave that piece of garb at your camp site.

by **Freki** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:42 pm

ok so going back to the tabberd kinda thing. do it like a heralds tabberd, but white with a small red cross on the front with rank / lvl and on the back a large red cross? you only wear it when on duty and when off you take it off. this seems like the best way to go. good / bad idea?

by **Æthelric** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:14 pm

Thorondor wrote:Only problem with attaching it to your garb would be if you weren't on duty, or intoxicated...you'd have to leave that piece of garb at your camp site.

I personally wouldn't mind having a guild symbol on my regular tabard, since I don't drink and would be fine with being "on duty" most of the time I'm at an event. I can always have a second tabard without the symbol on it, though, if I want to be low key.

Freki wrote:ok so going back to the tabberd kinda thing. do it like a heralds tabberd, but white with a small red cross on the front with rank / lvl and on the back a large red cross? you only wear it when on duty and when off you take it off. this seems like the best way to go. good / bad idea?

I think this is a good idea, too.

Maybe a hybrid approach? Appropriate indicators of guild membership could either be a badge on existing garb, assuming that it's large enough to be easily distinguished, or a separate guild tabard worn over your regular garb, depending on what the guild member wants, perhaps?

As long as it's clear, obvious, and easily identifiable on the field, I think that any indicator should be OK.

by **Freki** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:08 pm

I really like that Idea about doing it the Hybrid way. I say we do it that way, It's cheap, effective, and if you make a tabberd just for the medic guild and if you wanna have a few drinks, you just take it off.

So now what? we are using the GSL to cover out butts to help the ind that is hurt along with asking them if they want help. Now what? we have the lvl situation delt with within the guild. so where do we go from here ?:(

by **Thorondor** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:24 pm

Freki wrote:so where do we go from here

I would draft a proposal with all the important information from this thread and have someone submit it to the war council for discussion on if it's something they want done in Belegarth or not. If you want input/help getting all the important information together, let me know.

by **Freki** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:29 pm

That would be most helpful. PMed

by **Thorondor** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:34 pm

Freki wrote:That would be most helpful. PMed

I'll try to get it done tonight and sent over to you.

~Þ~

by **Freki** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:38 pm

you sir are teh awesome sauce

by **Thorondor** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:51 pm

Part of the GSL wrote:Members must not be paid, must not expect pay, and cannot act outside reasonable common sense.

I think this means members cannot be granted a discount on event fees/etc as well. I'm going to put that into the proposal...

Proposal has been PMed to you since your email came back unknown.

Belegarth

Who is online